Brains get calcified and what's actually paranoia or OCD is passed off as "loyalty" or "objective truth." There are a bunch of news organizations who base their whole strategy off this truth, but alas, their demographic is dying off by the day. |
@sacman I agree that streaming is a big part of the future. Not opening up a non-existent debate.
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Great answers so far! Thanks. @tvad wrote, From my perspective, it’s impossible to "get ahead". One either make a choice to be frugal, or one makes a choice to buy the best one can afford knowing both will be bettered relatively soon. Agreed, but "frugal" exists on a sliding scale, for each of us. So my question is about how "relatively soon" servers and streamers are "bettering" now compared to DACs. Your comment about the rapid change of computer processing speed does address that. Perhaps the "choke point" is the availability of content at that higher density. If it’s "not much" then it makes sense to stick with older formats -- but of course, DACs can now make a large difference with those older formats, so they remain a better investment than new streamers. @ianrmack or others -- How great a difference does upgrading to a separate power supply make for a DAC? |
@teo my question was not implying “good enough” or at least i didn’t meant to. It was simply about the rate of change. Only people with limitless amounts of money are able to waste it on a technology that is about to have an improvement only a couple of months later. We have all experienced the buyers remorse of buying a computer just before the same model got a chipset upgrade. But there are other things besides chips in these things and I appreciate the answers I’m getting because it is explaining the various elements that could change within the horizon of a buying episode.
It sounds like we disagree about one thing you mentioned. I believe that to be an audiophile means to seek out music that gives enjoyment within one’s budget and Steve Guttenberg has pointed out there are many ways to put together a delightful sounding system that is not “peak quality”. I think the hobby of audio has turned a lot of people off because they think they can’t afford it. But I think most of us know that smart investments can come at different price points and not all of them require some thing that is “peak quality.” You can do what you like and live as you like. |
@millercarbon Not all of us can live in the 1950's. "Get off my lawn you kids!" LOL! |
@millercarbon No, it's you who are missing the point. The OP explicitly asked for the analog snobs to keep their yaps closed if they couldn't contribute. But no, you have to chime in with how analog is so superior. Why are you even in the "digital" category? Trolling. Go see what's on TV. Go to another thread. But give a hoot -- don't pollute. Begone. |
I think the OP is answered. Here's where this thread seems to dead-end for me. Thanks to @jjss49 @corente @headphonedreams for offering detailed answers with justifications about where things stand. Plus, your sense of what that implies for the best ratio of effort/reward ratio at the moment. From what I see here, no one has offered a good reason to think that the streamer/server side of things is as stable as the DAC side. Many have argued well that this side of things is still changing rapidly (tied, as it is to the technological churn of the computer industry) and "investments" is a word deserving of quotation marks. These edited comments from above will stick with me: @jjss49 - dac technology is quite stable/mature...very good sounding dacs are less expensive than ever, from chi-fi and other makers -- this brings very good sound to the budget audiophile, and puts alot of pressure on makers of 3-4-5-6 grand dacs on really delivering something superior... they are really making super high quality output stages as in megabuck line stages with excellent circuitry, isolation, parts quality, often with tube buffering to get purity and beauty in tone to go along with the excellent resolution that can be gotten out of the d/a conversion stage...
- streamers are also fairly stable as pieces of equipment, but the key here is that streaming services are still shaking out, and this will continue for the next 5-10 years...each offering new interfaces, sampling rates, higher resolutions, specialized content, each trying to lock each other out from the user’s eyeball range with proprietary u-i’s, dedicated software wrap-arounds (witness tidal connect, spotify connect, and so on) -- this tough and evolving competition creates some level of instability (and risk) in streamer purchases, as these are basically dedicated computers that will need updating when the streamed sources change the game, their interfaces etc -- to me, the resulting indicated action is to buy a good low to mid priced streamer (that sound excellent, btw, so long as proper internet connectivity is provided) so as to keep options open and don’t end up owning an expensive brick down the road that are no longer supported/updated @corente DAC's: ...have reached the technological maturity...there will not be major changes in the next years, except perhaps the DSD ratio.
SERVERS AND STREAMERS:...just the opposite: you find many different technical solutions rapidly evolving and many commercial solutions trying to cover "everything": you go from "dedicated computers" for storage and streaming to totally separated solutions: server + streamer + renderer
indeed more, you have to consider your "music manager software" going from proprietary and closed hardware integrated solutions (Aurender) to proprietary solutions accepting external ones (dCS with Mosaiq, accepting Roon) to full open hardware accepting "music managers" using UPnP or Roon that is based in a network proprietary standard (RAAT)....comparing what I presently use (Mac mini dedicated and configured only for music) with a basic Innuos...I can clearly hear differences but they are not significant ...with the DAC...the differences were huuuuuge.
My opinion is to wait and see (two or three years minimum) and use a commercial computer or some specific but CHEAP one (Intel NUC, Green .....) or the very basic line of the dedicated hardware solutions if and only if they work with non proprietary software (Antipodes, Innuos, 432Evo, ............) and when market and solutions consolidate and start to be "similar" to spend the big buck. |
@rhodes My favorite Clint scene is when he yells at an empty chair. |
@yyzsantabarbara
Thank you so much for your careful and perspicuous listening report. I learned a lot from your efforts, and I'm glad you came to a discovery.
Several years ago, a friend showed me his home built setup — he built two very simple computers with kits running Linux, one to process and store (mainly FLAC) files and the other to send them to his DAC. The computers are connected with fibre and have an LPS. Eventually they are played through VTL gear (monoblocks) and giant Maggies. It sounds lovely.
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@mahler123 And though as Audiophiles we argue endlessly about small sonic differences, essentially streaming and CD replay, into the same DAC, sound similar. Both are sending 1s and 0s into the DAC. I will admit I have a hard time hearing a difference. But I won't comment on your statement, because I suspect it's like a match tossed into gunpowder in this forum! Your other statement about the fragility of technology -- the ability of these IT devices to wind up divorced and non-functional -- is well taken. I have longed for the personal computer to achieve the simplicity and reliability status of other home appliances, but to no avail. It's a shame, as most people use computers for very basic tasks. |
@tubes444 Thanks for the head's up about Spotify via Roon. Didn't know that. It's not all about the music, of course. If it was, that's all we'd be talking about and you would never have gotten such good gear! Peace! |
