These are highly capacitive cables. The owner will say this begrudgingly if pushed hard enough but will dismiss the impact on the cable's performance. The high end is not natural, never will be, and in a highly resolving system is very evident. Good luck.
If you don't care, what is an "Audio Engineer"? Just curious as I see the reference made from time to time. I assume that it is either anyone with some type of engineering degree who works in audio or anyone who works in audio and considers their work to be engineering, or both?
Interesting...once again Stan posts negatively about the CTs, intimates that those who like them don't have revealing systems, and does not (after many requests from others) reveal what his system is.
Stanhifi, What is your highly resovling system that produced this effect so we know what is not a good match?
"Interesting...once again Stan posts negatively about the CTs, intimates that those who like them don't have revealing systems, and does not (after many requests from others) reveal what his system is."
Are you really surprised?
>>If you don't care, what is an "Audio Engineer"?<<
The guy who plays the music on Amtrak.
Wow, after reading 6 Moons conclusion what a difference from their first review.
I own the Zu Variel, Zu Ibis and Zu Mother power cord. I thought they were ok for the money but moved them to my Home theatre setup.
It seems the 6 moons reviewer was way bent to Zu Cables. In addition to all the Zu cables I mentioned above he also had Zu Speakers ! It also looked like he had flea Amps.
The other reviewer was using a Pass x 250.5 Amp.
Anyway, I just recieved my 2 meter balanced Ct Cables today. First few minutes of listening to the Cerious cables they sounded closed in. Typical of new cables, however, no hum , no bad noise what so ever!
Its been about 2 hours now and the bass has improved (never sounded flabby) actually, they are very good sounding in bass quality right now. The closed in sound has improved.
I do hope the upper treble improves over the next few days.
Thank you all for the advise on letting them settle for a few days before passing judgement.
Waiting has definitely made a difference in my experience with the cables. The first night they seemed a little less full than what I was use to....though several notches up in clarity. I also thought that the top end was lacking. In retrospect, as I have listened more, there is much less grunge in the top end than I am use to hearing. This, I believe is what gave me the impression that they had a tilted down top end. I am hearing such detail from the snare drum skin, to the residual shimmer of cymbals. Each instrument has the appropriate energy relative to the other instruments.
Evening 3, and now the performance is so clearly in my room.....no....I am in the original space that the recording was made. Listening to more choral music with pipe organ I find the bass is every bit as extended as my system will allow and that is down to around 19Hz....and did I mention the clarity. I have never heard the "shuddering" of the very lowest pipes with such clarity and ambience....just like what I have heard in a large cathedral.
I too have efficient speakers, around 94 db/m/W and I have no hum problem.
Ozzy....just wait till day 3!!!!
One question I would have for Srajan regarding his review is why he thinks that the cables are at fault rather than the RCA terminations. I fully agree with him that the connectors are not so great, they always seem to be too loose on my BAM. In his and Jules Coleman's reviews of the production Indras versus the betas, changing the connectors from stock WBT's (at least I think they were WBT's) to special proprietary connectors improved the performance of the cable by 20? 30? percent. Would a similar 'upgrade' for the Cerious result in a similar improvement? I gather that the balanced Cerious use Stereovox's Xhadow termination--has anybody A-B'd RCA and XLR Cerious IC's?
Also worth mentioning that Srajan discusses repeated connection and disconnection of the IC's--in my instructions for the cable it says in big letters DON"T MOVE THEM!
When I had the Cerious cables in my system, I had no hum. They were very quiet. And my speakers are 97db.
I did not move the cables when they were in my system and they did improve after about three days. They sounded much better.
But my findings, which I posted before Srajan's follow-up review was released, mirrored Srajan's experience. I thought the clarity was very good, the cables were quiet with a nice black background and the mid-range was lush and full.
My problem with the CT cables is that the leading edge seemed soft and therefore the dynamics of the music was affected. There was a smoothing effect to the cables. Very nice, but not as dynamic as what I was used to. I thought the frequency extremes were a little less extended and the soundstage was a good foot lower than my current cables.
None-the-less, not a bad cable at all. To the contrary, a very good cable, but just not quiet as good as what I already had.
This is a response that I posted at Audio Asylum
Reply to: You will not hear their benefit the first day you get them. nt posted by Norm on October 14, 2005 at 20:28:47:
I recieved a 2 meter Balanced Cerious Interconnect pair yesterday.
When I first put them into my system they sounded dull, very dull.
Today, 24 hours later they sound kinda bright.
This change occurred without the system running, just being left in place!
This is contrary to every other cable I have tried. I own a AudioDharma Cable Cooker and I believe in cables break in.
The Cerious cables claim they dont need break in. Well that maybe true sort of, but, they need settling time!. Constant unplugging them will nevr give them a chance to grow to their potential.
This should have been clearly spelled out in Cerious Tech Internet site and with a letter enclosed with the cables.
Both the 6 Moons reviewer guy and Cerious Cables owner should be flogged with the cables of their choice for not understanding this and making it clear!!!
People that own them recommend 3 to 4 days left alone for settling time and that is what I intend to do.
Then I will compare it to my Cable Company trial Harmonic Tech Cyber ligts.
Seems we're going over some of the same ground on the CT cables, so I'll simply add something different. My feeling about the CT ICs are on record on other threads. One of my main principles in auditioning audio gear is never to make a decision on a new product without (sometimes extensive) tweaking to allow the system to sound it's best with the new component. This virtually always helps if the new product is reasonably good, and it certainly did with the CTs. I'm talking about relatively easy tweaks, like changing speaker positioning or toe-in, changing head (listening) position in small increments, experimenting with any room treatments (including audio room products, stuffed chairs, rugs, curtains), trying a different power cord, etc. Since I have a reference and keep extensive notes about what the details of that reference (including all the aforementioned things) that I have worked very hard to optimize, I can easily make changes after insertion of a new product and see if the OVERALL sound is now better or worse. If it's better it's clear to me that the new product is a "keeper". I can't help but think this may be happening with some people who find the CTs lacking. Just my thoughts from my own experience, of course.
Sorry re "I can't help but think 'this' may be happening with some people who find the CTs lacking". I meant to say that NOT tweaking might be a reason for some of the difference in opinion about such things as high-end extension, lack of transient "snap", etc. That is, if people are not tweaking after insertion they be disrupting the balance they've attained and like with their current system. Naturally this is just theory on my part.
REgarding hum, FWIW. I have a pair of CT interconnects. When connected between my EXemplar CD player and preamp, no hum. When I demo'd the Wavelength Brick DAC instead of the Exemplar, yes hum. When I popped in Nirvana SL interconnects into the latter arrangement, no hum. It seems to validate the observation on 6moons that different configurations of equipment have different grounding planes, some of which the CT's do not like. -- David
What on Earth is a liquid ceramic? Sorry, but the Cerious site's pseudo technical discussion on the underlying technology looks intentionally confounding and smacks of new age technobabble. While I have no problem purchasing a product whose underlying technology I do not understand, I have a lot of problems purchasing a product whose technology I perceived to be clothed in intentional misdirection, confusion, and pseudoscientific garble.
Just another gimmick. They are not worth your listening time. Cables costing half as much (Zu Varial) smoke them. Check out 6moons.
Good will and peace towards men. How about joining me my skeptical friend???
Stan ain't selling. . . but like myself, he ain't buying liquid ceramic mumbo jumbo either!
Stanhifi, I did check out 6moons and saw the glowing review by Edgar Kramer. You keep posting about your bad experience with the CTs and they continue heavily backlogged. Do you suppose your experience was unique?
Guidocorona, why don't you try anything rather than continually serving as the scam police?
Perhaps they were better than his existing cables which I suppose doesn't say much for whatever he was using prior to the CT. You must realize also that Edgar has not published many cable reviews. Let's not forget Srajan sent his back (as I did) in favor of cables costing almost 50% less. Is it difficult for you as an owner to realize that this product is simply another interconnect and maybe overpriced at that? Thank you for your comments though.
Good hearing from you Norm! I have tried things in the past, will try things in the future, and occasionally -- very recently in fact -- I even purchase equipment. Yet I make it a point of personal policy not to give any chance to manufacturers that employ marcom messages whith which I am not comfortable.
Perhaps it is a small way for me to fight the system? If a maker wants even a faint opportunity to get my business, they must give me the straight goods. Cerious may very well make a splendid product. . . when they change their message to something I can relate to. . . I will try it. I am awaiting for that great and glorious day with bated breath. . .
When you guys are all done with your liquid ceramic debate and the dust settles please consider the Wolff interconnect with the carbon Acrolink RCA. Am I shilling. Hell yes. But, I still think they are great and need some recognition.
Stanhifi, regarding your statement "Edgar has not published many cable reviews". Beg to differ. I would guess that in my relatively short career I have reviewed more cables than most long term reviewers. Check my archives at 6moons, you'll find I've reviewed HT Magic, Eichmann Xpress, Luminous Audio Synchestra Silver Reference, Cerious Technologies, about to come out with Bocchino Audio Morning Glory. I have owned and auditioned in my very revealing system more cables than I care to remember, I mean into the dozens.
You say that you've reviewed more cables than many long term reviewers. OK fine, but 5 published reviews is hardly what I would call "many" (my words). Furthermore the cables you've reviewed are mid-fi, low budget products not high end reference level products such as Indra, Dominus, MIT, Prana, Kubala, etc.
Now regarding all of the cables you've claimed to have owned and auditioned, we all know talk is cheap. Let's see the list your published listening notes along with the associated equipment. You magazine guys are hilarious.
Well, I sent mine back too. The marketing is more exciting than the sonics, IMO. Like all cables, just a matter of system match and the price you are willing to pay.
In the archives I see only 3 cables that you've reviewed. None of them are even close to reference level or high end caliber cables. Regarding owning and hearing dozens, that could only be bravado IMO. Color me totally unimpressed.
Talk about hilarious, Stanhifi and Judy426, have no review experience nor any credibility here and they are criticizing Edgar. What gall! Stanhifi will not even list his system and he wants Edgar to list his listening notes. He values Sergan's review and does not want listening notes there, when everyone knows he has a terrible listening environment. It is clear to me and probably everyone else on this thread and others that Stanhifi and probably Judy have nothing to offer.
Regarding my response to Stan:
It wasn't till after I responded that I did a search and realized you had in fact auditioned the cables in your system, so I appologize about the "selling" comment.
That being said, Cerious is shipping out my entire set of cables this week, which includes RCA and XLR IC's speaker and power cords.
Call me a sucker for the latest in technolgy, but I ordered a set of their speakers as well, the Two/bass, which will take a few more weeks to arrive.
If the cables don't suit my current speakers, obviously I'll have to wait to pass judgement till the speakers arrive.
I'm confident though that since I'll be using Cerious cables and speakers, that they will match quite well. It seems most people ordering one of their speakers would try the cables, so I'm sure they were voiced with that in mind.
Actually I'm looking forward to having thier cables smooth the top end a bit of my current system. I just received the brand new PS Audio phono stage today, and it sounds wonderful, but is so extended on top (same with my PS Audio GCC-100 pre/amp) that it aggrivates my tinnitus a bit (which is bad today for some reason)
This PS audio gear gain cell stuff (to me anyway) is so extended on the top that some sources (CD) can sound a bit harsh on top. They have so much more information compared to Spectral gear I upgraded from (which I still have for comparison) that cables with a relaxed high end could just be the ticket for me.
This whole thing reminds me of how MIT cable used to be rolled in the highs because the spectral gear was so wideband it could use the taming. (Though I did move on to other cables that were not rolled in the highs with good result)
I will certainly keep people posted as the cables arrive (and settle) and then soon after once the speakers arrive.
I'll also be letting people in the NYC area have a chance to hear the Cerious gear in person (provided everything works out sonically).
I made this offer to Cerious since I live in a major market and their is currently no where to hear these products in the area, and since there has been a bit of a controversary surrounding their cables.
I have a friend who also bought the speakers, and I thought I was brave to initially try both the ics and speaker wires.
Remember that after installation they will not sound at all good for 24 hours. Every time you move them they take time to recover thus making it hard to compare them with other cables.
I am anxious to hear about your experience with the speakers although I void to never buy an inefficient speaker.
Why would anybody buy the speakers after hearing the cables? Must be a masochistic audiophile.
I'm genuinely curious, Stan: why even visit a thread about a cable you don't like, much less continue posting negative comments about it?
Stan, I respect your opinion but could do without your condescension. Not everyone who enjoys the Cerious cables is "masochistic," lacks a "revealing" system, or have never tried premium cables.
Why do I post? Readers need to know the absolute truth about this product and the owners are unwilling to give it up. Thanks for asking and good listening to you.
"Why would anybody buy the speakers after hearing the cables? Must be a masochistic audiophile."
Can I retract my applogy to Stan? (okay I'm kidding)
After talking with and reading comments by several owners of Cerious Speakers, (Ken, the owner of the reference) indicate that he has never heard a better speaker at any price at CES. WHile that is certainly not an exhaustive comparison, it tells me that something very special is going on there with Cerious speakers.
After reading the Cerious technical explanation of what they are doing (read many times) combined with the other things I have read and heard from Bob Grost, there is no denying that even products from Wilson seem low tech in comparison. (execution is another thing however) There is simply no one doing what Cerious is. The technology in and of itself is no guarantee of top notch sound, but putting pieces of the puzzle together, their technolgy, user comments, the success on building upon what Bob had done with Alon, all lead me to put my money where my mouth is. (of course with the confidence of an in home trial period)
Probably few have read every word of the Cerious site multiple times over like I have, but the physics just seem to make sense. One example - Look at the compression wrapped kevlar. Having experimented long ago compression wrapping my current speakers (but to a much lesser extent than Cerious)I am believer in the benefits. (and I still run them that way)
Look at the rigid and non rigid ceramic materials for resonance control and backwave absoption, crossovers with no resitors, built right into the cables, fluid filled pods in the subwoofers, Alum. tubes with lossy materials for resonace control, and no stuffing needed for sound absorption.
WHo is offering anything else like this, and especially at these price points? Though the not terribly expensive off the shelf drivers are treated woth ceramic compounds, That's the only area where there could possibly be room for improvment, (i.e using components from Skanning, or designing their own drivers, but that would bring the cost up quite a bit I think.) I even asked Bob if they have ever tried one of the diamond deposited tweeters in thier reference, and was told yes, with excellent results in the treble, but without good integration with the rest of the freq. range. Bob indictaed the diamond tweeters sounded great, but never blended and thus stuck out. Though not a fair comparison, this is exactly what I heard listening to the B&W diamond series speakers.
SO my plan is to try the Two/bass and if I really like what I hear, save up to buy the reference (if money and space permit)
BTW I am only getting one of the Bass units,(and at a nice cost saving over two basses) and the Two's will go on stands out in the room. Since I am tight on space this should be a good solution, (and with enough bass to satisfy my relatively listening levels) and might be the way I order the reference, should I do so. (The two and 1 bass seem like a real bargain)
I'll know in a few weeks if all this radical technology truly sounds better than traditional cabinet materials (that actually cost alot more), but I am sure that there will be a synergy between the cables and the speakers, so I'm not worried
about some people's finding the cable not to their liking.
I'll have the cables in a few days to test with my currents speakers and of course will share my findings here.
Absolute truth? Wow, I did not know we had God in among us. Thanks for tell us, Stanhifi, or can I not say your name?
Emailists, thanks for your post. I will look forward to your posts as well as hearing from my friend who also bought them.
Not a problem TBG and I think the God thing is a slight exaggeration. Anyway, if you need anymore assistance, I'd be glad to oblige. Good luck and good listening to you!!
Well, Stan, that certainly makes me wish I hadn't asked. And makes me think maybe I should have known better. "Absolute truth"? "give it up"? I'll stop trying to discuss this with you, as I value honest differences of opinion - and humility.
How about the ABSOLUTE truth- Stan is a troll who offers nothing but negativity and condescension in every one of his posts. More absolute truth- he never even tried Cerious Cables.
"More absolute truth- he never even tried Cerious Cables."
Okay, this is a pretty serious accusation. I will email Bob Grost to confirm that Stan ordered and returned cables.
I guess I would be mildly interested in your findings, Emailists, but why do you care?
My Cables came today. XLR, RCA, Speaker and 5 power cords.
Right away with no settling I noticed the standup bass on the CLark Terry Chesky LP sounded really nice- completely on its own, in space.
CD vocals that were previously whitish sounding became much smoother.
One thing I noticed it seemed harder to concentrate on the sound, as opposed to the music. I always find this to be a great trait in a component, when you just get into the music even when you are trying to evaluate sound.
I cant wait to really hear them in 3-4 days. I'll post back more info.
Emailists, I very much liked your review on AA. You articulated some of what I also hear better than I had been able to verbalize.
Having had these cables for some time, I can assure you that they will get better yet. I think you hit upon why Stanhifi's experiences are atypical.
TBG - glad you liked my review.
Here is a link to it