CD Tweaks and Longterm Damage

I agree, PH isn't what damaged my CD's back in the mid 90's, it was the petroleum in the Armor All that did it.

And yes, I did wipe mine thoroughly.

I will not use anything on my shiny discs that has oil or wax on it, period. I learned my lesson.

Gordus is correct about the mold release agents used in production of our silvery discs, however, we want to keep the pit area as free of debris and as perfect as we can, (not filled in with wax), if we want the lowest BLER, (BLock Error Rate).

If the pit is filled with wax, it is harder to read and the ECC (Error Correction Circuit) has to decipher what info actually is there. In a case such as this, the BLER is increased and to the point where it is noticeable with average hearing acuity.

The better audiophile labels have BLER reject levels, where if the disc has too high of a BLER, it is destroyed and thrown in the dumpster. FIM and Mobile Fidelity immediately come to mind. As an example, many commercial discs have a BLER around 150, FIM and the old Mo-Fi reject discs above 50.

Filling the pit area will increase the BLER, which will certainly change the sound, but not neccessarily to the better. Think of ECC as you would negative feedback. You can get stability, but it greatly affects resolution.

Also, IME, we don't want to use any product that will leave a film which promote lazer wander, this includes dishwashing soap, as it will increase the BLER.

And, don't use any product containing petroleum distillates, as mentioned by Elizabeth above. It was the petroleum distillates in the Armor All that etched my CD's and ruined them. I think because they are such similar materials, just as certain inner record sleeves will etch your records. Ever see that one?

Be careful folks ...

Shventus,

I have a friend who works for a major software firm that is in charge of transporting sensitive and trademark data to other divisions throughout the World. Some of the data is BLER sensitive, in other words, he must supply them the data with extremely low BLER.

Thankfully, he is an audiophile of sorts, and agreed to test the various CD treatments that I had around, along with those that a few of our friends had also. In all the products tested, those that did not contain oil and wax and did not leave a film, lowered the BLER "significantly".

He went on to explain that to obtain optimal disc readability, you want the disc as clean as possible, without any film what so ever. That "filling in the pits" with wax and/or oil would lower the readability of the disc and would make the Error Correction Circuit (ECC) work harder in attempt to properly read the data.

We've all heard discs that are scratched, that sound horrible when the player is trying to play the song. The sound is squashed, distorted and not what you'd call high resolution. Some disc damage goes beyond the ability of the ECC and are unreadable, (As were my Armor All treated CD's after a number of years). In cases like this, the BLER is sky high. This said, it makes sense that you'd wouldn't want to use anything that would increase the BLER and make the ECC work harder. As said before, he told me to think of ECC as a variable negative feedback system, which increased with an increased BLER. Films and waxes that cause light scatter will raise the BLER. (Not good)

To answer your question, Shventus, my friend sent back all of the cleaners and treatments to us but one. He kept the Shine Ola.

Cello,

I believe that Tom tested Audiotop also, but I'm not 100%certain. I know that if he did, he didn't get it from me, nor anyone from my group. (He had 3 friends give him products). If it is important to you, I can ask.

If I'm not mistaken, we tested everything available, even a few that aren't available anymore, like Jena Labs.

My purpose of my post wasn't to brag on one particular product. To me, it was important to share the info that our friend with all of the test equipment found. He has chosen to stay nameless because he conducted these tests at work, using their equipment and on company time. One positive is that he has found a cleaner that helps him send a low BLER data disc that will not have long term detriment. Maybe he should put in for a raise?

The bottom line is that if Audiotop is free of petroleum distillates, doesn't contain a wax or a substance that will leave a film and doesn't leave scratches, it is likely safe. Shine Ola comes from a reputable company that has been around for while, Record Research Lab. It also comes with a 3M micro fiber cloth that does not scratch the disc surface at all, unlike other supplied cloths.

Yioryos, I've been getting mine at Red Trumpet. I got my last bottle at half price. They have a special, buy $30 worth of records or CD's and you can buy RRL products at a discount. (www.redtrumpet.com or give them a call.)

I hope this helped ...

Hello Shuang,

I haven't noticed one bit of difference, nor did my friend who conducted the software tests, between 2 sprays or 5 sprays of Shine Ola. I don't know why they recommend so many sprays, it is not needed.

Regarding re-application, I never do unless the disc becomes dirty again. Remember, Shine Ola is just a cleaner and does not leave a film that will wear off (or raise BLER). Once cleaned and the mold release agents are removed, it is fine.

I haven't noticed any difference with Shine Ola that would make me believe that it is transport dependant, it works great on everything our group has thrown at it, from a $30 DVD player for the kids to a EMM Labs and various modified SACD players. Some transports will read better, but that defines the ability of the transport, not Shine Ola or any other cleaner.

I've cleaned my 3M cloths with Woolite by hand, (first cleaning my hands with anti-bacterial soap), and a final rinse of the 3M cloth with Record Research Labs Super Vinyl Wash, just because it is the cleanest water that I know of, and therefore contains less contaminates. I then let the 3M cloth air dry using a thumb tack, a string and a safety pin. My Wife is mad about the holes in the ceiling, so I'll have to figure something else out soon, but it works.

Regarding the cyro treatment, I'd re-clean the discs, just because their handling is unknown throughout the entire cryo process. I'd rather be certain that they are clean and sounding as good as they can.

I hope this helps ...