Cat JL2 with blown board. Advice needed


This is an older non signature model. A tube went out and the resistors protecting the output transformers combusted taking out one of the boards.

Now the good news: an upgrade to a signature model won't cost anymore with the damage. The bad news: this is my only stereo. Ken Stevens himself advised that it's really not the intent of the amp to use it for amplifying football and CNN. His point is that he doesn't do that and he can get tubes a lot cheaper than I can.

I really liked the amp even in it's non signature form. I have a symphonic line tube pre amp and Eggleston Andra speakers. I have been told that the Symphonic Line Kraft 250 is even better than the JL2 however no one has told me definitively against the JL2 signature.

Given the speakers and how I am going to use the amp, do I get it fixed and keep it or move on?

What would the amp be worth as is? You can buy the amp, pay $5000 to upgrade it and have a factory certified JL2 signature. It should have value.

Or is the signature even better than the Kraft 250 or any other SS amp in the $8k used range? If the signature is the cat's meow in it's range I am leaning towards keeping it and dealing with buying a lot of tubes frequently. I probably use the amp 750 hours a year.
defender1844

Showing 5 responses by bombaywalla

Bart,
Do be careful before you universally recommend the Kraft 250 over the CAT JL2.
The Kraft 250 works for YOUR particular system - the CAT JL2 was always a misfit for your system because of the flagship Avalon speaker that you have. The CAT JL2 being a tubed power amp never had the ability from the get-go to ever drive your speakers. Thus, with the Kraft 250, you are hearing, maybe for the 1st time ever, what your speakers are capable of. You can thank Jay for this turn-around in your system.

I do not know much about the Andra speakers but it is entirely possible that they are beasts to drive (just like the Avalon flagship speakers) in which case the CAT JL2 is the wrong amp for the job. Yes, it'll give you good sound but I do not think that it would do justice to the Andra speakers - I could be wrong but this seems to be my opinion from what I have read & heard about these speakers. You would need a much higher wattage amp - if you want to stay in the tube domain then a VTL MB450, MB185 or VTL MB750 or a TRL 400, Wolcott Presence 220. If you want to switch to a s.s. amp then the Kraft 250 would do very nicely. Like Bart wrote, it is unlike any other s.s. amp you might have heard. Best of both tube & s.s. worlds + stable to 0.5 Ohms.
Bart,
Well, I wanted to give Defender1844 a choice between tubes & s.s. I remain confident that the choices that I gave him for large wattage tube power amps will do the job. My confidence stems from the fact that I know of several fellow Apogee speaker owners who drive their speakers with tube power amps to very good effect. As you might know, Apogee speakers are very tough/demanding low-impedance loads but the 4 Ohm version speakers in the Apogee portfolio respond well to large wattage tube power amps.
Further, if you search A'gon you will see that Albert Porter is driving his Dali Megaline speakers with 2 pairs of VTL Ref 750 mono blocks to very good effect. The Dali Megalines are a hybrid ribbon-cone driver speaker that have every indication of being a tough load.
I believe that Defender1844's Andras would be served well by large wattage tube power amps.
Now, none of these large wattage tube power amps are cheap! That's for sure. Jay's advice to you was very good from the financial view-point - rather than spend a lot for the VTL mono that you were considering, he suggested that you buy a fine s.s. amp that could do the job for much less money. I believe that the VTL mono would have been very good as well; it's just that you would have been out of a lot more money!
In the end it depends on Defender1844's tastes - if he likes tubes & wants to stick to them, there are some large wattage tube amps out there that'll suffice. Looks like Defender1844 is a man of some means & these tube power amps could be within his reach.
If he would like to switch to s.s. both you & I have given him a very good choice.
I think that there are other very good ( & expensive) s.s. choices as well - Gryphon, Karan, FM Acoustics & Goldmund.
So, depends on his sonic preferences & how much he's willing to spend.

>> As previously stated, I have loved and used tubes all
>> my life and like you Bombay have a large collection of
>> the best NOS tubes available.
tube rolling with NOS tubes inside Ken's preamp is one mistake that I made - it never sounded as good with NOS tubes as it did with his factory-provided tubes. The NOS tubes, no matter how fine, were always to noisy, too fat in the bass, too rolled off in the treble, etc & I felt ruined the sound. It could be one reason why your Ultimate Mk2 never sounded as good as it should have?
I've been using Symphonic Line power amps since 2001 with my Signature Mk3 preamp. The bass has never been uncontrolled. I have never felt like complaining about the overall sonics.

FWIW. IMHO.
Bart,
No one is trying to argue with you! Your inputs are well taken.
What I'm trying to convey here to Defender1844 (& anybody else reading this thread) is that they are NOT limited to only s.s. power amps for their application. Basically what you are saying is that the s.s. Kraft 250 is it & nothing else would work for Defender1844! I'm saying that Defender1844 has tube & s.s. power amp choices.
Hey, I'm a S-L user for longer than most people on this forum so I should be the one recommending nothing but S-L amps. That would be very limiting - very capable tube power choices exist as well.

Agree that tube rolling is very subjective - some like it a lot, other like it some & some do not like it at all. I just happen to fall in the 1st 2 categories.
With the CAT pre I happen to fall in the 2nd category - I liked it but with some qualifications.
With my Jolida 502A & Cary Sixpac tube amps, I out-right loved tube-rolling.
I've found tube rolling to be very gear dependent.
You feedback on tube rolling is well-taken.

>> Again it is CURRENT that controls bass not WATTS
You are right in a round-about way. Tt's impedance that control bass. Hig(er) current is a sign of a very robust power supply, which in turn can happen usually when the output impedance is very low.

Bart,
we are mostly saying the same thing the only difference is that you are limiting him to s.s. power amps & I am saying that he has both tube & s.s. power amp choices.
Anyway, I do not want to argue with you - I agree it's pointless.
The info is there in this thread - let Defender1844 read it & do whtever he want with it. Peace!
Tfrumweiller,
good response from Ken himself. I tend to agree w/ him about DF being an indicator of bass response given that there is much interaction of the amp w/ the speaker to make just DF be the sole parameter.

Very interesting comments on the Symphonic Line Kraft 250 power amp! I DO NOT take any offence to them - just want to let all know for ample clarification.
At present I am using Ken's SL1 Signature preamp with my Kraft 300 (not 250) & I can confidently say that the combination does not lack bass. In fact I am very happy w/ the combination & The only change I'd make is to shell out some money to buy one of Ken's newer preamps like the Renaissance or the Legend. I believe the newer preamps throw an even wider, deeper & more life-like soundstage. If I only had some money......

I do not know which preamp George is using in his setup? I don't know why he is hearing a light-weight bass?
>> I said the Kraft 250 was described by George as being
>> lightweight and overcontrolled. This is completely
>> different from saying it "lacks bass".

OK, thanx for the clarification & letting us know where Ken was coming from.
I interpret "overcontrolled" to mean more negative feedback?
"lightweight" to mean lacking midrange warmth?

Wish that George V would read this thread & post some info on what he was hearing w.r.t. the Kraft 250.......