Cary 805 AE-do they go low?


Seriously considering the  Cary805 AE with  pair of Zu Def 4s. My only question is regarding the bass signal that will be fed to the built in subs in the Zus. Having read about everything out there regarding these amps and generally very positive responses, just wondering, do they the go low?
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It all comes down to the output transformer quality, and how the 805 is driven, best is with an inter-stage transformer.

I had some real 805 SET 40kg monoblocks (with variable feedback), not 845 called 805's. I built these up with 13D3 input, 12bh7 pre driver, 300b driver into inter-stage transformer which drove the 805 (900v anodes!!), The output transformer was the highest quality I could get wound (by an output transformer god).
Bass was OK? with the highest 30db of feedback.
A good solid state is more dynamic and blows it away in the bass.
And a good solid state Class-A equals it in the mids and is more extended in the highs.

Cheers George  
Thanks George. So in a few words you're saying they would leave something to be desired.
Probably going another route then. Thanks
They have a questionable "magic" to the mid-range, but I believe that’s highlighted at an expense of the bass which is a little bloated and which adds body to the lower mids. And the highs are not as immediate because of the diminished extension and harmonics which gives a perceived smoother upper mid especially on some not so well recorded female vocals.

What I can say with all the tubes I’ve had Se or PP, I eventually try to improve them with circuit changes/mods, and the better I made them with these changes the closer they got to really good linear solid state amps with plenty of Class-A bias.

My hypothetical tube amp that would maybe blow my socks off would be an OTL that can give the current of a Krell ect, and drive any load down to 2ohms staying flat without becoming a tone control..

Cheers George
I currently run McIntosh MC 60s, and softness in the bass, given the potential of the down firing subs in the Definitions is like leaving part of the main course on the table. These speakers don't need the power of the amps to produce the bass, but do need the frequency range at the bottom to not be rolled off.
 
Reaching the sweet spot in regards to amplification will be important, obviously. With all the options available it has become a quest. Been considering this for a while and what conclusion I've come to is that you really have to make compromises. My barometer for satisfying musical enjoyment can be measured in terms of listener fatigue. The Zus can use a bit of warmth, and with a  change as big as amplifier change, would like to hit the sweet spot. 



but do need the frequency range at the bottom to not be rolled off.
Frequency range down low and control at those frequencies are two different things that an amp has to have. Just because an amp goes low, doesn’t mean it has control.

Control in the low bass with speakers that have low impedance and high negative phase angles at those frequencies, means an amp that not only goes low in frequency, but one that has to have good wattage, high current ability, and low output impedance/high damping factor, as to keep the bass drivers cone under control.
Some Class-D’s excel in this department, but to me that’s where it stops with them, for now. Maybe in the future when technology catches up and the switching frequency triples, they will be as good if not better in the other areas as well.

Cheers George
BTW, much appreciated info here. The Zus have a class D Hypex amp driving a 12" subwoofer, signal taken off the mains. So the signal and it's effectiveness at juicing the Hypex should depend on the linearity of the Carys and not so much on the their ability to control or move air. If I'm mistaken here or missing something. The impedance doesn't drop below 6 Ohms along the FR curve. I can't find damping factor info about the Cary.
I can't find damping factor info about the Cary.

Damping factor at 8ohms is a product of output impedance.

In table one the output impedance at 20hz is at best .51ohm  from the 4ohm tap which equates to a damping factor of 15.6 which is not great.
But you can see in the frequency response graphs that anything below 100hz and it's a tone control rolling off severely, and also above 10khz peaking badly, showing either poor transformer design and stability problems.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/cary-audio-design-cad-805-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

Cheers George
 
I’ve heard the Cary 805 driving the Zu Def4 and the sound was incredible.  The Zu Def4 have a built in powered sub woofer, therefore, the low output current demand that is required to provide deep bass in provided by the internal class D amplifier, making the Zu a very tube friendly amp.  
Extremely detailed and solid info George. Really good to have knowledgable I must say, experts, on this forum. Since it's few and far between that an opportunity exists to actually hear components, much less in the environment in which we listen, such advice is invaluable.
brf, your input comes from actual listening, so hard to argue there.
I always suspected my next move would be from the older PP MC 60s. Will call Sean Casey at Zu to help as well.

One sand amp that has been used with some success is the Valvet so I'm open to that avenue. 

George and brf- thanks!

Check this out!

https://www.stereophile.com/content/cary-audio-design-cad-805-monoblock-power-amplifier-sam-tellig-august-2003

 

Check out this review for the folks who pay attention to the stats. This review should be an eye opener. At the end of the day, you want to close your eyes and listen with your ears, body, and soul. “Subjective vs objective. Tube vs solid-state. Retro vs modern. Monoblock vs two-channel.”
My listening experience with the Cary Audio CAD 805 AE (Anniversary Edition) along with my choice of speakers, Acoustic Preference Gracioso 1.0 produced a magical sound and what was more fascinating was that it never fatigued me. I would listen for 5-6 hours each time. The only other amplifier that ever did that was the Jeff Rowland Model 12’s. The Cary’s also worked extremely well with the Wilson Audio Cub’s. It made them really sing. I was shocked. These monoblocks gives you the opportunity to choose between two output tubes. The 211 (70 Watts in Pure Class A Mode) or the 845 (50 Watt in Pure Class A Mode). I chose the 211’s. So, for those who love numbers, maybe you would want to start listening. I hope this helps in the future when you’re looking for a Single End Class A Amplifier.