Carver Power Amps

Eventhough I did not have an A....X amp as you do, I had the older M 4.0t amps that Bob Carved had designed before being bought out by board members. It had a rated output of 375 watts per channel, but in my short audiophile experience, those were the most GUTLESS watts I have ever had the displeasure of experiencing. How heavy is your amp? Mine was about 35 lbs, and to be honest, the weight to power ratio shows that there is something missing. All the amps that I have had afterwards were much heavier and subsequentialy had better bass, better everything. I unloaded my last M 4.0t about 3 years ago, on the cheap. That was the best decision I did in my whole life. Other amps I have used are PA-7 Nakamichi, Sonic Frontier Power 2 (glorious sounding, a little loose in the base department), Blue Circle BC-2 (75lbs each) nice power supply but needs somewhat flat impedance from the speaker and now I am using a DNA 225(this is one exciting and slamming amp.)

In response to your email question, I say that I cannot imagine what the DNA 225 would sound like with the Adcom preamp you have. One thing is for sure, the DNA 225 with the preamps I have used, which are as follows:
SUMO ATHENA (class A output stage) sounded jumpy and exciting. The bass was darn fast and powerful, but sometimes a little boomy...but I suspect this to be a problem with the speakers I am using, which produce too much base, as well as with the back
wall interaction(it makes standing waves and sounds, boomy.) Now, I have paired it with a FIRST SOUND PRESENCE DELUXE preamp. This is preamp is tubed and it makes the DNA 225 react when it is called
for. Less exciting then before, but let me say that my system has gained a little COMPOLSUREIf I had to classify from the lowest to the highest in the quality of sound....CARVER=sub
1K amp sound, mediocre at best, harsh sounding and pathetically weak in contrast to its high wattage designation...my amp produces 200 watts, but they are more powerful than even the 1000 watts that showed in the M 4.0 t Carver's led scale. What does that tell you about really watts? PARASOUNDS go between 1-2K range easily. They might compete with the likes of ADCOM, ARAGON, ROTEL? I have heard the 3500 has transformer humming issues....too big of a transformer, that is one of the trade backs. It supposedly produces oddles of current. The McCormack, even besides the DNA 225, which is priced a little above the 2K mark, takes the quality of sound
to levels between 2-5K (Like the SF Power 2 I had) is will give you a great sound, maybe you will not crave for upgrades anymore. Many AUDIOGONERS have McCormack
moded models as their reference, but can I say that they have PARASOUNDs or even CARVERS in the same rank? Never. The person you spoke to, he is simply trying
to defend whatever he happened to have experienced or owned. I cannot believe that anyone would keep a Carver especially the M whatever designations as their standard reference, if money was not in question.
I sold my M 4.0 t for $100 3 years ago. There is someone selling the same model for up to $400 in some sites. What a rip of an amp. I would rather run a pair of car
amps home than a Carver.
Regardless of what people defend, one needs to understand that it is all subjective. Some people favor BANG for the BUCK, and to those, a Carver might seem fine, especially if they see the wattage vs dollar ratio. Forget about Odyssey amps claiming the whole interesting article about weight/wattage/dollar calculation. Carver was at it way before....what about those Class A amps, like the Clayton that weight substantially and yet produce just 40 watts, but man, what type of 40 watts are those watts?
Having not too much money to spend, I would still skip Carvers anyday...rather fall into debt and get me something real. Never heard of the A series, but I know that thos transfer function amps were useless designs for real world purposes. Back in 1989, when I had a pair of Kappa 9, I have had the Carver M 4.0ts running monoblock, you needed to see how the Infinities ate them up for lunch. The lights would go to clipping and bang, nasty sound. Carver amps of those days were not well designed...thank God I got rid of those junkers, without damaging the speakers. Back then I did not know any better.
Guys, stop fighting over this amp, some designers are absolutely second class, older Carver corp amps are such designs that do not deserve another neuron and carpatunnel nerve injured for them.

Hope it helps.

PAUL

Well, no dealers would like to see me coming, because I have not bought from a brick and mortar dealer, nor have I paid full price for everything that I have owned or still do....I agree with you, Gmood, I am unabashedly defending the gear I have spent money on!>:) Regardless, Carvers in general BLOW. I cannot even believe that I had said good things about Carver in some posts before, blame it on my youth and my sheer ignorance.

I stand to my OPINION. Carver are rubbish. The amps that B Carver tried to sell in the mid to early 90s, before being pushed out of his company, were mostly sold more due to a careful commercial campaign than due to their audio merits, as someone already pointed out. Perhaps Sunfire amps actually have some brawns now, but these are not the same designs that I am thinking about.
ERRIVERA: Give anyone 20K to sell you a pair of amps.....back in the days(especially in 1989 when I was 17), in economic terms, a top flight Acura cost just about $40,000....Now, see how much the same model can easily cost, $57,000+....20K for a pair of tube amps in 1989 was a lot of money then and in today's dollar terms would be almost 30K+ or more....The fact that a designer can make a great sounding amp for 20K in that time is not necessarily proof that he is a genius. Returning to today, what is the price of a seriously REFERENCE class tube or SS amp, be it stereo or MONO? I cannot think about amps that cost more than the HALCROS for close to 20k or more....No tube amps, except those ridiculously priced Audio Note ONGAKUS come to mind, at 100k.
Come on, there are very talented designers that can make reference class amps at prices nowhere NEAR what those Carver Silver whatever Bob made back in the 1980s. This is not to say that they did sound really GOOD. I think when he took those amps to production, he was not seriously thinking about making money selling those amps....I think there were PART of his COMMERCIAL stategy...."Let me show you an amp that is less than xx lbs, and produces XXX watts per channel and by the way, it has The TUBE TRANSFER FUNCTION of those 20K amps..." If you look at the M amps of then, they had that logo printed on them SILVER 7 or 9 Tube TRANSFER FUNCTION.
I stand by my judgement, I have lived through the barrage of propaganda from the Carver Corporation when BCarver was there....his amps were rubbish to me back then and still are rubbish, in my vivid mind.

To Dalton: As someone else already pointed out, the P HC 3500 you have were the precursors to the JC 1 monos and thus have potential. The same amp, moded by CTC were the precursors to the raved REFERENCE monoblocks, at 5K. By the way ERRIVERA, I would rather keep 15k and have those JC 1 monos now than ever buy the Carver tubed beasts of back then(I do love tube amps.)

PAUL

Warnerwh, I did not know that the 20k amps were not of BCarver's design. All the worse. From the commercials it seemed as if he was claiming the fame for them. I did not even know that Hafler had anything to do with Tube amp designs. The things people learn at Audiogon. Interesting. Daltonlanny, it is a proven fact that Carvers are beyond overrated....someone stated that Onkyo's were not allowed into a demo test to workers at a electronic retail outlet, all for a reason. Add concrete to its insides and use it as an isolation device.>=)
Paul
Ps: doesn't my dislike for Carver designs show clearly and brightly?