I too use vintage gear. I am somewhat bemused by the original poster's reaction to donc55's prognosis. I believe he is spot on. Your turntables and tonearms are not up to the job.
CARTRIDGE WOES?
4-6-16
I don’t know what to think anymore, I’m perplexed! So, shall we dance? I mean begin?
Dig deep fellas, this system maybe older than some individuals here on this site?
I bought a Lyra Kleos exactly a month ago and have put about 55+ hours on it.
I’ve used my rock collection, my classical collection and my jazz collection across the board for every type of sound. My LP collection is vast with over 6500 records, although I only used a few disks that I am very familiar with, originals and a few re-issues.
I played it on humid days, dry days, cold days and warm days.
After initial setup I enjoyed it and without extreme reserve, I determined that it was an excellent cartridge according to my life’s experience. I started in middle-class Hi-Fi in 1967.
When I compared both cartridges* head to head on identically equipped turntables with identical arms, I heard some very noticeable differences. I understand they should be somewhat different but, please not a lateral movement.
However in all fairness, I presumed it needed more time for its break-in period to work its way into my heart. I began to judge after 45 hours or so.
Earlier this week, I decided to re-set the Kleos up from scratch because I felt the competing ‘other’ cartridge on the other identical table/arm was sounding, well, by all rational sensitivities ‘better’.
Later this week I spent about six hours setting it up all over again from scratch, over and over again, gee, talk about ‘audio-nervosa’. Testing and re-testing with no change.
It took that long because I tried various VTA and VTF and bias settings, along with different platter mats, along with either 3 and 40 ohm settings on my SUT.
Not only were all of the above parameters repeatedly changed but, so was my mental mood and attitude. I tried it all on a full stomach, an empty stomach, good moods, bad moods. I tried it in the quiet of early morning and the peaceful solitude of late evenings.
In consideration of its cost at twice the going rate of the ‘other’* cartridge, I expected something like I was in heaven but, didn’t really get it. The other* cartridge seems to allow me any feelings and moods I may have to be elevated to a higher level of musical enjoyment, regardless of time of day, hour or personal mood.
Things re-considered were; VTF, VTA, azimuth, bias, Baerwald, Stevenson alignment and stylus warm-up time.
Equipment used: Pre-amp: Carver C-4000, with a S.A.E 1800 parametric EQ
Amps: double Phase Linear 700 Series II (rebuilt)
SUT: Denon AU-320
Tone arms: SME non-improved 3009
Cartridge leads: AT-6101
Tone arm cables: standard vintage SME type
Tables: two Technics SL-120mk1
Speakers: double stacked AR-LST
System cables: Straight-Wire Symphony
Surely, the equipment could be better or even updated, but screw that, my vintage stuff sounds great to me and those others fortunate to hear it! In fact it qualifies giving my left testicle to have this system 45 years ago!
LPs used are in good to excellent and new condition, and all have been meticulously cleaned with a VPI 16.5
All equipment is carefully maintained and in excellent condition which I rate approx. 7.5+ to 8.5+.
The ‘other’ cartridge is a Lyra Delos with about 100 hours on it’s lovely self.
Although, I’ve been a vinyl user since I was a kid (‘60s) in the last century using a Shure M3D and M-55, and in the early seventies with Shure M91ED, Empire 999sex, Shure V15 Type 3, and in the early 2000’s a AT-150MLx and AT-440MLa, and Shure V15 Type IV with SAS stylus.
Cartridges used within the last 3 years have been Denon DL-304, DL-301II.
Before the arrival of the Lyras, I used a Benz-Micro Ace SL and a Ortofon Rondo Blue,
So, my listening tools haven’t been half bad and in terms of vintage quality are certainly capable in their price category.
If you can find it in your heart, does anyone have any input?
I ask because I’m ready to freak-out and ask for a ‘trade’ and hopefully get two new Lyra Delos in exchange for one slightly used Kleos in the deal. I know fat-chance. Is Jonathan C. a sympathetic and understanding person? ‘Come-on Johnny!’
This maybe wishful thinking but, I’m ready to flip-out just the same.
The Delos seems to have it all over the Kleos in my system. It, being more transparent to all instruments, holographic, precise, flowing and magical, with greater depth and more articulate bass slam and certainly soundstage depth. Compounded by almost surgically cutting highs. It's simply amazing across the board, I mean record.
I realize that system synergy is certainly a key factor here, but the rig sounded more than great with the Delos, why not with the Kleos? I don’t think any component in the ‘system’ is out-classed by using a Kleos. If, I were using an Atlas or Etna, then, I’d concede.
fm
P.S. Please don’t get me wrong, as I type here I’ve been listening to a 3 hour block of classical on the ‘London’ label and the Kleos sounds great, just not as great as the Delos can sound.
I have to give it to “Syntax” who I don’t personally know but, I think he had it correct with his comments.
It sure sounds that way.
No offense or insult to anyone!
I don’t know what to think anymore, I’m perplexed! So, shall we dance? I mean begin?
Dig deep fellas, this system maybe older than some individuals here on this site?
I bought a Lyra Kleos exactly a month ago and have put about 55+ hours on it.
I’ve used my rock collection, my classical collection and my jazz collection across the board for every type of sound. My LP collection is vast with over 6500 records, although I only used a few disks that I am very familiar with, originals and a few re-issues.
I played it on humid days, dry days, cold days and warm days.
After initial setup I enjoyed it and without extreme reserve, I determined that it was an excellent cartridge according to my life’s experience. I started in middle-class Hi-Fi in 1967.
When I compared both cartridges* head to head on identically equipped turntables with identical arms, I heard some very noticeable differences. I understand they should be somewhat different but, please not a lateral movement.
However in all fairness, I presumed it needed more time for its break-in period to work its way into my heart. I began to judge after 45 hours or so.
Earlier this week, I decided to re-set the Kleos up from scratch because I felt the competing ‘other’ cartridge on the other identical table/arm was sounding, well, by all rational sensitivities ‘better’.
Later this week I spent about six hours setting it up all over again from scratch, over and over again, gee, talk about ‘audio-nervosa’. Testing and re-testing with no change.
It took that long because I tried various VTA and VTF and bias settings, along with different platter mats, along with either 3 and 40 ohm settings on my SUT.
Not only were all of the above parameters repeatedly changed but, so was my mental mood and attitude. I tried it all on a full stomach, an empty stomach, good moods, bad moods. I tried it in the quiet of early morning and the peaceful solitude of late evenings.
In consideration of its cost at twice the going rate of the ‘other’* cartridge, I expected something like I was in heaven but, didn’t really get it. The other* cartridge seems to allow me any feelings and moods I may have to be elevated to a higher level of musical enjoyment, regardless of time of day, hour or personal mood.
Things re-considered were; VTF, VTA, azimuth, bias, Baerwald, Stevenson alignment and stylus warm-up time.
Equipment used: Pre-amp: Carver C-4000, with a S.A.E 1800 parametric EQ
Amps: double Phase Linear 700 Series II (rebuilt)
SUT: Denon AU-320
Tone arms: SME non-improved 3009
Cartridge leads: AT-6101
Tone arm cables: standard vintage SME type
Tables: two Technics SL-120mk1
Speakers: double stacked AR-LST
System cables: Straight-Wire Symphony
Surely, the equipment could be better or even updated, but screw that, my vintage stuff sounds great to me and those others fortunate to hear it! In fact it qualifies giving my left testicle to have this system 45 years ago!
LPs used are in good to excellent and new condition, and all have been meticulously cleaned with a VPI 16.5
All equipment is carefully maintained and in excellent condition which I rate approx. 7.5+ to 8.5+.
The ‘other’ cartridge is a Lyra Delos with about 100 hours on it’s lovely self.
Although, I’ve been a vinyl user since I was a kid (‘60s) in the last century using a Shure M3D and M-55, and in the early seventies with Shure M91ED, Empire 999sex, Shure V15 Type 3, and in the early 2000’s a AT-150MLx and AT-440MLa, and Shure V15 Type IV with SAS stylus.
Cartridges used within the last 3 years have been Denon DL-304, DL-301II.
Before the arrival of the Lyras, I used a Benz-Micro Ace SL and a Ortofon Rondo Blue,
So, my listening tools haven’t been half bad and in terms of vintage quality are certainly capable in their price category.
If you can find it in your heart, does anyone have any input?
I ask because I’m ready to freak-out and ask for a ‘trade’ and hopefully get two new Lyra Delos in exchange for one slightly used Kleos in the deal. I know fat-chance. Is Jonathan C. a sympathetic and understanding person? ‘Come-on Johnny!’
This maybe wishful thinking but, I’m ready to flip-out just the same.
The Delos seems to have it all over the Kleos in my system. It, being more transparent to all instruments, holographic, precise, flowing and magical, with greater depth and more articulate bass slam and certainly soundstage depth. Compounded by almost surgically cutting highs. It's simply amazing across the board, I mean record.
I realize that system synergy is certainly a key factor here, but the rig sounded more than great with the Delos, why not with the Kleos? I don’t think any component in the ‘system’ is out-classed by using a Kleos. If, I were using an Atlas or Etna, then, I’d concede.
fm
P.S. Please don’t get me wrong, as I type here I’ve been listening to a 3 hour block of classical on the ‘London’ label and the Kleos sounds great, just not as great as the Delos can sound.
I have to give it to “Syntax” who I don’t personally know but, I think he had it correct with his comments.
It sure sounds that way.
No offense or insult to anyone!