Cartridge Opinions - Sorry


Yeah, another dumb "what's your opinion on these cartridges" thread. Back in the late 80's we had dealers where you could listen to the stuff.

So anyhow I have a Linn LP12 with Ittok arm and a 30 year old Audioquest B200L cartridge. I'm running it through the phono stage of a Jeff Rowland Coherence One into a Spectral DMA90 through a set of Kef R300's.

I prefer a little more laid back sound (err on the side of forgiving instead of fatiguing) but I like a lot of upper end detail, precise soundstaging, air, etc.

So far I'm considering an Ortofon Quintet S Black, Hana SL or a Benz wood - something at or below the $1k level.

I'd love to hear any opinions, suggestions, and experiences with those cartridges or others in the price range. I could possibly go higher if there is something out there that really shines for less than $1,500.

Thanks.


klooker
First of all Raul, I did not denigrate the SME arm. It was a great arm in it's day. It is not as good as some others by virtue of it's geometry. I generally reserve denigration for uni pivot arms. I hate to say this but that turntable system? is a mess. You need to clean that up. A record clamp that massive is not necessary with vacuum hold down. It is bad for your bearing. Belts that long are also a problem.
I am grad for you that you can afford a Formula 1. Maybe some day I will be able to also. 
Value is an important issue for most of us. We want to get the most for our money but we also expect performance to be within a certain envelope. Those of us on a budget or who are married look for the least expensive item that will get us there. I am more likely to trust the opinion of someone on a budget than someone who can spend anything they want. For those people if it is more expensive it has to be better. 
Now granted there are a few talented experienced folk that can reach optimization by ear, but many/most have not experienced “optimum”. @atmasphere seems to be alluding that there’s much more performance that can be wrung out of your existing cartridge if it is not yet optimized.
This. +1 

Due to the crude adjustments or complete lack of adjustments on many arms, optimizing the cartridge is very difficult if not impossible! If ever there were things that cause analog to be problematic as opposed to digital, this is certainly one of the big ones. Flip that coin over- if you have an arm where every adjustment is easy, and add to that no arm tube resonance and no chatter in the bearings then you can get the cartridge to perform.


I can give many examples but a small one is this: If you wish to optimize VTA using an SME5 it is done by raising the arm. But first you have to use a tool to loosen the arm pillar from the base. Then you can use the threaded rod on the left side of the arm that bears against the mounting plate, thus raising the arm. Did you go too high? backing up the adjuster does not cause the arm to sink- you have to push it down. Hint: Apply a dot of white paint to the top knurled knob (which should be several times larger) so you can count the number of turns you've set up... watch it though- when you loosen the arm pillar, the arm can rotate with respect to its base. Point is- its tricky. With the arm I have now there are two graduated scales and I can adjust the VTA on the fly. This design has been copied by a lot of arm manufacturers but SME isn't one of them. 


Arm tube resonance is the simple fact that the arm tube is made of something, and that something can vibrate. It should be damped so it can be neutral. Most arms have nothing in this regard- some do. Now if your arm tube is editorializing while you are trying to play music, will your cartridge perform the way it should? Of course not. If the bearings in the arm chatter because they are set slightly loose, same thing. If the bearings are in the plane of the arm tube rather than the LP surface, same thing.


I master LPs. I know what the master tapes sound like, and how LPs produced thusly are supposed to sound. I heartily recommend to anyone to do something similar- at the very least get a nice set of microphones and record something you can stand to listen to and get it mastered to LP. Then you will have a reference. This is invaluable!


The bottom line is as quoted above.
@rauliruegas
“i can add that almost everyone knows that it's the cantilever/stylus the ones that be align in the protractor.“
I think you missed my point
First, it appears you’re confusing cartridge cantilever with tonearm.  
Second, I’m referring to manufacturing inconsistencies whose point you appear to miss.

Many/most who purchased a cartridge act/assume like both cartridge cantilever and the stylus are “perfectly” mounted which is not the case.  Cartridges are not commodities where everything is the same, nor automated assembly lines where tolerances can be closely monitored.  They are usually hand crafted by gifted artisans as such there are variations from cartridge to cartridge - teeny tiny variations of the stylus angles can have a significant audible affect.  Certain manufacturers have a reputation for consistency in their stylus and cantilever mountings, others not so much.  Some cartridges have to be returned because the stylus was mounted badly.    

I’m not an authority on how to “optimize” a cartridge as I’m currently wading through this subject, but I’ll pass along what I know so far.  You’ll need magnification to inspect the quality of mountings for your specific cartridge.  Michael Fremer suggests using a usb microscope to achieve 92 degrees stylus to groove angle as viewed from the cartridge side, and check the verticality 90 degrees from the front. This stylus to groove adjustment method circumvents the inconsistent stylus to cantilever and the cantilever to body issues making them both moot.   I’ve also read that after cartridge break in, angles may change so need readjustment.  There’s also Analog Magik cartridge setup software which I’ve yet to explore/research.

To adjust zenith, using a quality protractor is an valuable tool.  But if you want to “optimize” your cartridge, you can’t automatically assume that the cartridge cantilever is “perfectly parallel” to the cartridge body because of manufacturing variations as mentioned above

”Optimizing” your cartridge takes significantly more time/patience/effort, but it’s free (not counting any additional tool purchases) and will pay dividends for all your cartridges - for now and future purchases.
Forgive me if I haven't read every word of every comment posted on my thread  (please point it out if I've missed something), it has gotten pathetically long as people continue their pissing contests .

I understand the challenge to accurately mount a mechanical transducer where it needs to be perfectly aligned in 3 dimensions: pitch, yaw & roll to put it in common terms. My tonearm, the Linn Ittok, doesn't provide for adjustments in roll (azimuth). I know that this can be measured with a test record and a scope. If azimuth adjustments need to be made, I can get shim stock. 

My question is how can one accurately measure yaw (twist) and pitch (VTA)? I have a USB scope but trying to accurately measure the angle of a stylus to a record surface, or the angle of a cantilever to a record groove using a cheap optical instrument while coping with parallax seems silly. Buying software that magically simplifies this seems more so (again, correct me if I'm wrong).

On the other hand, I'm sure some do it by ear which IMO shouldn't be dismissed. The best musicians I know tune by ear and they understand that no acoustic instrument can be "perfectly tuned" but they know what works 90% of the time.

Please help me make sense of this. Thanks.

Try the nagaoka mp 300/500 for excellent sound altho i am not quite sure its compliance is matched to the ittok. Someone with that information please chip in.