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Are you saying that your Shunyata PCS are older than Zitrons? Older series are a little warmer than Zitrons... Zitrons are even more linear than CX. At the same time, Zitron PCs are richer in harmonics.... I have not tried yet the latest Alphas and Sigmas from Shunyata, but I have read enthusiastic comments about them.
For what I could tell at RMAF, Cardas Clear Beyond are relatively similar to Shunyata Zitrons, in the sense that Clear Beyond expose a lot of harmonic content without introducing any harshness.... Even though they use a completely different internal construction than Shunyata wires.
Hello Guido - you and I have '' chatted '' before and I hope all is well. I had whole system of Shunyata's about 506 years ago ....the power cords were the Alpha Helix and the speaker cables were the Andres or were they the interconnects ????...don't recall but anyway I went back to Purist where there just seemed to be more meat on the bones and less harshness to the over all musical presentation.....wanted to stay in the Purist Line for the speaker cable but the next jump up would of been about $15,000......I want retire ! So I listened to the Cardas Clear Beyond and fell in love with them ...neutral but not dry analytical but with warmth .....and the pace of music was beautiful. ( and about $5,000 less ) So, just wondering how the power cord would be on the Siler Line Conditioner ????....I know call the Cable Company but they never seem to have what I am looking for....
Hi Gary, of course I remember *smiles!* ... All's well under the Sun on my side... having lots of fun evaluating the High Fidelity power cords designed by Rick Schultz... Truly amazing stuff in their own right.
In recent times I have extended my financial irresponsibility by becoming a dabbler in horns... That is high brass music instruments... I have a fab Adams A4 heavy trumpet, and a Kanstul flugel horn in my burgeoning collection.... With two custom cornets by Carolbrass on order... a Bb with three shepherd crooks, and an Eb soprano. Except for the fact that wife tells me that I sound like a love-sick elephant in distress, I'm having loads of fun... And unlike high end audio wire products, mouthpieces used to customize the sound of horns cost often less than $60 a pop.
But going back to those Cardas PCs... It seemed to me that the Clear Beyond sonic signature is pretty consistent across the line. So, if you value the beautiful sound you heard from the speaker wires, I doubt that you will be disappointed with a Clear Beyond PC.
.......as a follow to this thread as the OP, Cardas plans on coming out with a new power cord that will sit above their top of the line ; Cardas Clear Beyond. I liked the CB's on my Esoteric gear. I am interested in what this cord has to offer. Brian at Cardas had mentioned that it will be out shortly.
Hello Mikey - hope all is well. I spoke with Brian at Cardas last week and he said that the cable will be ready real soon. The cable is designed for high power amps or any equipment that will benefit from a larger / higher gauged cable. Brian had noted and to paraphrase him ; '' it is Clear Beyond only better ''. I also thought he said it will be $2,400 for a 1.5 meter.
Hello Al - nice to hear from you and did not know that the released date had been pushed back until January. Great as I can save some more money.
Mr Rones - I am sure that is in the process but I hopefully not for awhile as having all Clear Beyond in my system has been an expensive proposition but very musically satisfying one thankfully
What's so odd about the Cardas cables in my system is that all my components are Ayre......who recommends Cardas....even the Ayre proprietary cable is made by Cardas. In my system, the cables sound thick, and plummy.....not so with many other cables I've tried. I spoke to Coleen at Cardas who told me that the cables need more time to open up......after 2 months???? Cables react differently in different systems. Cardas didn't work for me....by the way....neither did the very top Signature William Lowe (Audioquest) cables.....yet their Sky/Everest was quite nice.
.......Hello Stringreen, thank you for your input but not but really sure what this opinion has to do with the Cardas Clear beyond Power cords ? I was '' bumping '' my original thread about the eventual release of the new power cord the : XL . Have you even listened to the Clear beyond line before you made your general assumption here ? Now, that would help listeners who may be interested in this cable.
Hey Gary, I talked to a dealer in Colorado who raved about them and he had one 2M pair--which I passed on. However, I know Cardas is now taking orders for the CCBXL power cords and is currently estimating fulfilling those orders in 2-3 weeks. Hopefully, that is true--they have missed their last two projected availability dates. I gambled and ordered a pair of 1M 20A PCs for my Rowland M925s. When I get them and burn them in, I will post my opinion on how they sound.
Hello Al.....nice to hear from you and I hope all is well these days. I must say that I am surprised that there has been little to almost no information on what will be Cardas's most expensive power cord to date. I have spoken with a few dealer's who were surprised when I had asked them about the CCBXL PC as they knew nothing about it, to dealers who knew it was coming but were not sure when. I just thought there would have been more information on the PC as well an indication of what is designed to sound like. I guess that that this must be the way Cardas handles new product introductions. I also heard that they are being shipped around the third week of February and I will believe that when I see it ......I am going to sit tight until they are out in the field and see what people say about it.
I own two Beyond Power (one on the integrated amp, one on the SACDp) and a Clear Power (on the SACDp AC filter), with Beyond XLR Interconnects (!!!) and the old double run of Golden Reference Speaker in "shotgun" configuration.
I tried a single pair Clear Rev.1 Speaker first down than up and I realized I have to buy two pairs, Clear Rev.1 is clearly better in every parameter but now this new Beyond XL Power may change my plans...
What should I buy first now (since I have to choose) ?
The "basic" Beyond Power sounds extended, neutral, controlled, with great ability to resolve the single instruments and their melodic lines.
I think bass fullness and "slam" was its main lack, compared to power cords like, for example, Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha I could try in my system.
The "basic" Beyond provides more harmonics, reverbs and ambient informations, with better image widht and height but it is a bit less dynamic than my previous Lessloss DFPC Signature; furthermore, it may sound a bit bright on some gear ... not mine, but many told me, anyway it doesn’t have quite the smoothness and warmht of some Purist Audio Design or Kubala Sosna power cords I had before.
I expect the Beyond XL to be weightier in the bass, more dynamic than the "gentle" character of the "basic" Beyond, with a slightly warmer presentation.
Clear M is now a "Legacy" product on the Cardas website, so I expect the old Beyond to become the recommended cable for sources, being the XL the one for integrated and main power amps.
I wait for impressions of early users!
@biggy79 How does a chain of Clear Beyond Power sound like on everything from source to amp? Is it your conclusion that is sounds a bit bright?
I am currently using Clear Beyond Power on everything ie. power distributor, preamp, DAC, power amp, except for the sources. I am using Golden Reference on the sources and was wondering how Clear Beyond on them will sound.
A forum-mate told me he experienced that Clear Beyond may sound a bit bright/hard on some "digital" digital sources, where he did prefer the softer Clear M.
I think it's a matter of quality of audio gear, you cannot use the Beyond Power on poor audio equipment, it will reveal their faults.
On my Accuphase DP700 the Beyond Power replaced a MIT Oracle AC1, sounding more natural, gentle, neutral, not "boombastic" like the MIT was, with LESS hardness/brightness than the MIT, which was both "warm" with big fat bass and "silvery" on the top.
Clear Beyond sounds pretty good on my system, where I use it both on Luxman 509u and DP700 (linked by the superb Clear Beyond Interconnects) but in my (and another forum-mate) experience it can't be used in series; on power strips and conditioners it is better to use a Clear Power as "first cable", if a Beyond is used after to the audio gear.
Beyond Power extends the frequency response on both extremes remaining absolutely neutral, but two Beyonds in series may sound too "pumped" on the extremes with obscured voice, at least in my system.
No problem if two Beyond are used in parallel, after a power strip/conditioner powered by a Clear Power (a delicious version of the good old Golden Reference Power, without its faults: more neutral and focused, more natural, less bright on the top and with less pronounced midbass).
Try to swap the Golden Reference for your sorce with the Beyond for power distributor and let me know ;) .
The only thing I miss with the "standard" Beyond Power is a bit more of "slam", I'd like more "punchy", impactful and dynamic sound, with more "PRAT" effect; maybe this is what Beyond XL will bring to the table.
The only power cable I know sounding better than the standard Beyond is the Shunyata Anaconda Helix Alpha, but It costs twice (I think it is in the same class of the XL) and I have some doubts about its neutrality.
@biggy79 Actually, I like the pronounced mid bass on the Golden Reference. There are only a few instances on some recordings where I find the bass a bit boomy.
I am surprised you find the Clear Power less bright on top than the Golden Reference Power. I thought Clear Power was well, too "clear". Ditto for the Clear interconnects - I preferred Clear Reflection to them.
But then, i also preferred Golden Cross to Golden Reference interconnects.
Absolutely, to my ears and in my system Clear Power ("Golden Reference II") is less bright than Golden Reference Power, but it is also more neutral (less brightness, less midbass bloom, more naturally warm, less congested sound).
Golden Reference Power pushes sound forward, now I use it on home theater equipment (a/v receiver and MySky HD, I would like to find other two for oled tv and blu ray).
I read some of you use Golden Reference Power on source, that’s why in my opinion Beyond Interconnects may sound a bit bright: in the Golden Reference series there was a sort of compensation, where brightness of power cable was tamed by darkness of the interconnects, so if you replace the latter with a neutral cable like the Beyond, colorations of the former will come out.
In my experience Beyond interconnects require Beyond(XL!?) Power on integrated or main amps, Clear Power on preamps (I guess; I have an integrated) and small filters dedicated to low power absorption gear (digital sources and preamps), Clear Beyond Power on sources, Clear (now Beyond XL!?) Power on power strips/conditioners/regenerators.
As I told before, Clear Beyond power on power strips (/etc.) may make another Clear Beyond after (in series) to source or/and amps sound not well.
New series do not blend well with older ones.
Hello Biggy ....not sure where you are coming up with all of these observations. You had noted in your experience ; '' Beyond interconnects require Beyond XL Power '' .... Cardas hasn't shipped the Beyond XL's so let me know on that one. Also not sure on the ; '' do not use CB's on power strips, power conditioners or power distribution units in succession with other CB's connected to equipment as they might sound well ''......I am lost on that one. Also the assumption that the Beyond XL's will have a ''warmer'' presentation than the original Clear Beyond's as Cardas's Clear line has been to get a neutral presentation yet remain true to the musical presentation has me also scratching my head. The Beyond XL's are said to be of a much higher AWG than the CB's, larger toroidal as well as a vastly improved ground that the purpose was to make power for equipment that will benefit from a higher gauge of wire and improved ground. I personally said that the Cardas Clear Line was bright was not looking at their equipment as this line is dead spot on neutral which some audiophiles can't handle the '' truth '' - or understand that's what reproduced music sounds like. Cardas has always had the reputation of being warm and colored from way back during the Golden Reference days but they have a real winner here and most people have not caught up to that fact and have taken the time to listen to the Clear line.
1) as you noticed, I noted "in my experience";
2) I never said Clear Beyond Interconnects require Beyond Power XL, I think my meaning was...clear: Golden Reference series do not blend with Clear(Beyond) series;
3) about using C.B. in succession, me and another audiophile I know had the same experience: it may not work... sorry if it is annoying you;
4) does my expectation of a "warmer" Beyond XL Power seem so weird, since the same thing happened when Cardas launched Beyond Interconnects, thicker, richer, fuller, more musical than Clear Rev.1 Interconnects?
5) Clear Power sounds warmer than Golden Reference and matches with the "highly neutral" (I would say overly "flat") Clear Rev.1 Interconnects, while Golden Reference Power sounds brighter and more forward to compensate the dark, laid back sound of Golden Reference Interconnects... what’s wrong with it?
It seems strange since it is named "Clear", but Cardas itselfs admits that Clear Power comes from the ashes of Golden Reference Power.
Sorry again if my opinion and experience with Cardas Cables (since 2010) bother you.
Hello Biggy........thank you for your response and you didn't bother me at all so you can sleep well tonight. My questions were not meant to cause you any problems. I was just wondering as you were referencing the Cardas Clear Beyond XL power cords and they hadn't been shipped yet so it caused me to wonder as Cardas was selling some XL's prototypes earlier last year and was wondering if you had one. I have a full loom of Clear Beyond and was also wondering if I should change out the Shunyata power cords on my Shunyata Triton and Typhon down the road but made a reference that this did not sound well. So I thought I would ask if you knew something I didn't.
So anybody who has changed out their Shunyata Power Cords on their Triton and Typhon's let me know.
**** Thanks Al and I hope all is well and I ordered an XL yesterday from Antony Perotta and will let you know what I think of these PC's.
Hello Jafant....thank you and I hope all is well. Ohhhhh I am not good at that my friend and I will leave any reviews for the professionals as I am here just for the music. I like keeping it simple. I do expect these to be really good. I have owned full looms of the top Synergistic Cables, Purist Audio 20th Anniversary's and Shunyata but what George has done with the Clear line is just right to my ears. This stuff is getting, no, is expensive and I want to retire soon. This line is neutral and musical......that's what make this hobby fun as there is no right answer to what we all like.
Hello Al ! .....I know you want to wait before you respond but I got about 80 hours on mine and a slight step up from the Clear Beyond as can be and should be expected. The XL continues to remain neutral but maintains the musical side of what's playing with a tinge more clarity and dynamics including bass notes. It is a beautiful
cable and as I noted I have the full loom of Cardas Clear Beyond. I have it on my amp, and my only question I have is that ; if you put the XL PC's on all of your equipment, is your / my system going be pushed to that side of being '' too '' neutral where you have compromised the musicality and meat of the music ?
Like @mikey8811 , I don't understand if the Beyond XL is more musical (since @garebear says "The XL continues to remain neutral but maintains the musical side") or if it is leaner, more analytical than the regular Beyond (since he is afraid a full set of XL may sound "too neutral" losing musicality and "meat").
Maybe 80 hours of burn-in are not enough, every Cardas cable tend to sound with lack of "weight" if burn in process is not complete.
More than 100 hours are needed, only after you can say how the XL sounds compared to the standard Beyond.
Since the Beyond has more noise filtering and wire gauge, I'd expect a less shimmering, quieter and more relaxong sound with more dynamics and slam on low frequencies...
Neutrality does not imply non-musicality. Neutrality is simply the characteristics to treat the entire audible region equally... Without emphasizing or dampening any particular region of the audible spectrum.... In this, neutrality and musicality are not opposites, and can happily coexist in an audio product.
I have now had my new pair of 1M XL PCs (20A) accepting continuous current for more than 300 hours. My observations are based on comparing the XLs to CBs on Jef Rowland M925 mono amplifiers. The XLs are plugged directly into Porter Ports on 2 separate dedicated 20A circuits. Besides the XLs, I am running a full loom of Cardas CB PCs and ICs, except for a Shunyata Sigma NR PC (20A) between the wall and the power conditioner. In my system and in my room the XLs are presenting more detail, without "etch", in the higher registers than the CBs. The XL's bass, mid-bass particularly, is tighter than the CBs. This is a good thing IMO. Initially, the XLs appeared to widen the soundstage about 6 inches over the CBs. However, by the 150 hour mark, that feature seemed to retreat and has not returned. Consequently, I could not say with confidence that the XL has a wider soundstage. The XLs do present a deeper stage than the CBs. It is not greatly deeper; but it is clearly present in my system. Most importantly, I previously opted to run the CBs into a power conditioner rather than into the wall because the system sounded better that way. I haven't yet tried the XLs into the power conditioner. I prefer the XLs into the wall over the CBs into the power conditioner. I agree with Guido musical can be neutral. I classify CBs as "neutral" and "musical." The overriding feature of the XLs is they provide more detail than the CBs, without promoting fatigue. If you are currently a happy user of Cardas Clear or Clear Beyond PCs, I would be surprised if you weren't satisfied with Cardas Clear Beyond XL PCs on high output amplifiers. IMO they qualify as a beneficial upgrade. Lastly, the XLs are very flexible, although the wall plug end is longer and wider than the CBs. If you have limited space between your rack and wall or in your audio cabinetry, this could be a complicating issue.
@guidocorona I agree with you, but if one says "I am afraid it’s too neutral" means a cable sound that way many audiophiles call "neutrality", but reality is that sound is thin, lacking of weight and body.
I would say it won’t happen with Cardas, but it happened in the past with the Clear Interconnects, "fixed" by the Beyonds... I think Clear Interconnects it’s good example of "too neutral" sound.
However, as I told before I am almost sure that the "excessive neutrality" he talked about comes from the only 80 hours of use: that amount of copper deserves at least 100 cooking hours to start talking seriously about how does XL sound
Any update or further impressions about the XL?
I share my recent experience about standard Clear Beyond and Clear Power cords.
As I wrote before, I used to keep a Clear Beyond from the Purepower 3000 (feeded by a 12AWGx3 dedicated line with Oyaide C279 at the end) to the integrated, a Clear Power from the Purepower 3000 to the Goldenote Dumbo AC (filter/isolation trasformer dedicated to source only) and a Clear Beyond from the Dumbo to the SACDp.
After having suggestions from a dealer I chatted with on Facebook (it started with me asking about the XL!), I swapped Clear and Clear Beyond on the Dumbo, obtaining best focus and more natural sound, with speakers better disappearing than before and more image depht.
I don't feel that slow and not so much extended sound I noticed when I tried the Clear Power on the integrated, neither I lose the goods of Beyond Power (in terms of neutrality, extension and detail) on the source (it's still there, but before, no more after the filter); simply, swapping Clear and Clear Beyond on the Dumbo, with the higher gauge on the filter and smaller on the source seem to give the best results, keeping the goods of both cables and reducing or eliminating their faults.
After this experience I am re-considering Cardas tips of putting smaller gauge cables on sources.
500+ hour update--The XLs continue to perform as described in my earlier post except that now I would say that the XLs do have a slightly wider soundstage than the CB; this came back at about the 400 hour mark. Based on what I have heard in my system, I think the CCB XLs need a full 500 hours to settle into their sound profile.