Capacitor rolling.


My son is getting to the Audio World.  Bought a Vincent Hybrid Pre-Amp and Vincent Hybrid Amp.

Both us MKP Film caps on each signal line-out paths. He wants a little more warm from the/voice- strings

Audio Note offers  some of their Caps for those Cap rollers. In Silver/Gold./ Cooper &Alum foil.

Very pricey compared to MKP caps. 7 times+

By the way MKP is widely used by many high-end electronic audio gear Mfg because of their very-very neutral sound & fast transits. Has anyone in this forum  have any feed back on CAP rolling? And Audio Note Caps??

Trust Me signal path Cap rolling can produce more changes than Tube rolling does in some cases..


tubes444
The negatives I've read about AN caps are reliability. Not sure if it has improved.

MKP is a type of cap (polypropylene), but not a specific brand. :) The Mundorf MKP caps are pretty darkish/warmish, but very good low level detail.

The Supreme's -> Supreme SIO are colorful in the mid-treble, almost over saturating. Not unpleasant, but definitely euphonic.

I would try Audyn TrueCopper or Jupiter Copper caps as your high end copper foil caps. Audyn is limited to 2uF or so.


Another vote for Jupiter. Great sound and value.
Another vote for Jupiter. The copper foil are more resolving and the VT line of Jupiter caps are less expensive with better "warmth" if that is what you really want. 
Dear @tubes444: Perhaps you are talking of Wima caps that are the standard in the industry. Very trusty caps.

When caps are inthe audio signal changes on different brans caps always makes a difference. Not always for the better but only different.

Best cap is a NEUTRAL one with no detectable signature. Warmer or less warmer adjectives or other kind of adjectives only tell us the cap colorations/distortions and at least me: don't want colorations.

Teflon V-caps are really near to neutral.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.


Jupiter’s may be good sounding, but value... well only compared to the Duelunds! :)

Compared to Clarity/Mundorf they are eye-watering expensive.

For amazing value at price, Clarity CMR, no question.
Jupiter,  we'll Jupiter VT caps are are more affordable really. I find they sound far better than the midrange Clarity line however. 

Ahh, the VT are aluminum foil, never heard them/of them.

I was comparing the top of the line Clarity CMR. The prices is something like this:

Clarity CMR < Jupiter VT <<<<< Jupiter copper foil

:) Around 10 uF I think it's around this:

$90 < $100 < $500

Gentlemen morning all,

I see a number of thumbs-up for the Jupiter VT/Copper foil cap

series. Not familiar with this brand. I’ve used some Clarity & Mundorf

in the pass. Is Jupiter used by some of the bigger names in Pre Amp/ Amplifier Mfg? I realize there’ll be some trade offs in his Cap rolling. Being he’s trying to be a" ardent Audiophile." I wouldn’t want to steer away his young hunger for solid bass either. I agree with raulriuegas comment completely. I don’t imply my son is a bass freak.

Any online sellers of the Jupiter & Andyn to check out?


@tubes444 

In the US I only know of Parts Express for Audyn.

Sonic Craft and Parts Connexion carry Jupiter, Clarity and Mundorf.

PLEASE check the physical size before buying. Some can be HUGE. Also check  your voltages needed. tube gear has hundreds of volts, so you must use appropriate cap.

Best,

E

erik_squires

His Vincent Pre-amp Mk31A MK uses (4) 6n16 sub tubes from

Russia. 2 on each output path channels /Triode mode.

Caps 4.7uf 600vdc

I went to Jupiter web site noticed they offer two versions.

Cyro & Beeswax filled. Vibration damping? were their top Caps.

Any experience with these?

Dear @tubes444 :  I never tested the cooper Jupiter in my system so I can't be sure how good are but reading through different people/reviews i found out these kind of statements that makes me think are not really neutral but " colored ":


"" Jupiter copper also possesses great low-midrange richness and color that far "  

 " high degree of resolution, musicality, color "

" with "more" richness and musicality "


musicality, color richness are terms used by audiophiles for home audio system performance levels but almost never we can hear those terms when we are talking of live MUSIC at near-field.

Btw, teflon V-caps comes too in a cooper version. Other caps I have experiences with are the Sonicaps platinum and are way neutral.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.
At least you don't have to worry about rare NOS caps to roll !
When oscilloscopes pay for the gear, I'll let them tell me my values, Until then, I buy what I like to listen to, can afford and can put in my living room without blocking the windows. :)


Having said that, I did in fact choose Clarity for their absolute transparency.

Still, I can see "enriched" caps as being desirable as well.
The poster is looking for warmth. All caps have a sound or personality as does all gear. The Jupiter VT caps are natural sounding with lots of meat on the bones....opposite of thin and bright sounding. Nice resolution, but they deliver the goods with a nice warmth. Perfect for the poster.

The Jupiter copper foil caps are more resolute yet, with more top end extension and air. They reveal Micro details of the music better and do all of this with a smoothness that is both natural and easy on the ears. 

Yes the Jupiter caps are very,  very quiet and well damped just like  Duelund caps. Amazing what the removal noise does for music! 
In my view, it’s technology first, materials second, brand third.

Technology for the best caps, IMO, is either metallized dielectric (e.g. aluminum deposited on teflon), or film and foil (a layer of metallic film and a layer of dielectric). Film and foil is far superior. Then there is air gap, which consists of plates of metal separated by air, but that is limited to small values.

Materials mainly used are aluminum, tin, or copper for the metal, and paper in oil, polypropylene, styrene, or teflon for dielectric. Tin or copper can be soldered, and seem to me to give a smoother sound. Dielectrics seem to affect the sound as a function of dielectric constant: clarity improves as dielectric constant goes down. That puts styrene and teflon at the top.

That said, I find that styrene sounds a little more neutral, and teflon a little edgier. Air gap and vacuum are the very best, but very bulky and very expensive.

Last is brand and details of their process. Thickness of metallization is critical to the sound of metallized caps. More is better, but good luck in finding that information. MIT has a patented method of connection, which makes their multicap line sound better to me. Dueland is very close to an optimal configuration, but you have to pay for it.

I use a lot of MIT Multicap RTX styrene and tin f&f capacitors when I can’t use air gap, as they suit my system and my tastes. YMMV

Good discussion here and as expected different choices of capacitors preferred depending on the particular poster’s taste. Some like to use the term "neutral " and others such as myself use/prefer the term "natural", semantics. Natural is what I seek, in other words,  organic and realism. I’ve had the opportunity to use some exceptionally high quality capacitors. Just my opinion based on listening and acknowledging my opinion is no more or less credible than anyone else.

1.Duelund CAST copper foil.
1a.Jupiter copper foil.
2. V cap tin foil and Teflon.
3. Sonicap Platinum.

This is simply my preference based on perceived natural character. In my opinion all of these capacitors have an innate sonic signature which is unavoidable. Absolute neutrality doesn’t exist. We all choose what we believe best suits our own objective and listening criteria, as it should be.

I won’t argue over what’s the "absolute " best as this is pointless and unprovable. I accept that this is purely subjective by its very nature. One man’s neutral is another one’s thin . One man’s natural is another one’s rich. The debate goes on into eternity. Trust your own ears and you’ll be fine. Accept the fact that others will disagree with you, that’s okay.
Charles

Terry9

 Offering the Teflon is not surprising as ARC has now incorporated

Teflon caps in there entire Amp line. If I recall there's EXT break in time

on these some 500 to 600 hrs?  I tried  Styrene  cps years back. 1.2uf

very warm highs, little thin on the bass if I recall. different App although.

I have been looking further into DUELAND's>  case copper as suggested by Charles 1dad. Are they without air gaps?.

Tubes, I have been told that some offerings, which I don’t like, require hundreds of hours of break-in before being listenable. I won’t subject myself to that. Then there’s the sneaking suspicion that one is simply adapting and learning to accept an inferior sound.

I have tried both RelCap and Solen teflon f&f caps, and find them to sound similar, for values ranging from 0.022 to 0.82 uF. I tested them in a break-out box beside comparably valued RTX, and found the teflon caps to be a bit bright, RTX neither bright nor warm. The best teflon caps I have heard where made of monolithic copper and skived teflon tape, a DIY project.

None approached air-gap capacitors - by which I mean, metal plates separated by air, no other dielectric. They are hard to find, large, and rarely above 2000pF, but they are the gold standard. Air-gap and vacuum. Surplus Sales of Nebraska sells them, both variable and fixed. For that matter, you can make your own.

But once you hear them! In fact, it may take you an hour to take in and understand all the distortion that you’re not hearing. Which is why I use them when I can.

Another vote for Duelund’s Cast Copper PIO, a couple values of which Parts Connexion currently has on sale: (http://www.partsconnexion.com/duelc-specials.html?utm_source=getresponse&utm_medium=email&ut...) The Cast Silver maybe more transparent, but I couldn’t afford that show’s entry fee.  Swapping the 10uF Solen caps in my B+ circuits, for Clarity's 630VDC  MR Series,  cleaned things up even further.
The easiest way to find the most transparent coupling cap.

To all the cap rollers, use a dac or cdp or preamp that has direct coupled output, and then install each of the caps being rolled here to capacitor couple that dac or cdp or preamp. Then see which one sound the closest to no cap (direct coupled), and then you'll have your best cap.

Cheers George 
Or go with no caps in the signal path like my preamp!  I have tired a few of the copper caps, V-Cap which I like very much and just recently got my hands of Dueland copper but just installed them so no opinion yet.  I know people here who really liked the Jup coppers but I have not gotten around to those either.  I did not like the bees wax version of the Jups at all.  But as caps go, so do resistors Vishay, AN, Shinkoh, Caddock,etc.  they all have a sound so you have to see what you like.  My preamp has a switch so you can choose the resistor you like for your system or maybe more importantly for the CD you are playing.  I have used Clarity caps which IMO are a great value for the money and I am trying to get to hear the copper clarity caps hopefully soon.

Happy Listening.
The 25% off of film/electrolytic caps sale that Parts Connexion is running, may be of interest for some: (http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_ele_all.html?utm_source=getresponse&utm_medium=email&...) Then there are some that were, "slightly used", and further discounted: (http://www.partsconnexion.com/bbs_cap_film.html?utm_source=getresponse&utm_medium=email&utm_...)
I will actually be rolling three different pairs of Mundorf caps and comparing their performance in a DAC with the stock caps. They arrive next week. It should prove very interesting!