Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Eric

Some of the oldest Fisher caps of the late '50's were really not much more than your hand made caps. They look like foil and paper hand rolled and dipped in some kind of epoxy. Loose tolerances of 10%. 

The later Fisher's used machine made Vishay caps from West Germany and they are MUCH better.

Even the better Fishers of the same time frame like 400cx preamp (x202) used bigger beefier caps. 


So bigger beefier albeit more expensive caps has been known for a long time.



@volleyguy 

Maybe, but using BIG foil sheets I got to about 4 nF. That's nano-Farads. :) I think that was double Faraday's original jar though. :)

Ask me more specifically, I'm not sure your question about value.

But it's just basic sales and marketing. Sell for what you can get, not for what it cost you. That difference can certainly seem to be without rational thinking sometimes, and there have been MANY times when I've been told I should hear something which I did not. Saving me tens of thousands of dollars. :)


Best,

E
Schubert

I do not want to sound for or against old tubes. The Russian old military spec 7189 tubes were much better than the new Gold Lions 6bq5's I have/had. 

They sound better and last last way longer.

I just wanted to know have you tried the Gold Lion 12ax7's?

They sounded great and maybe 10,000 hours is reasonable? Maybe not as long as vintage but my mindset might be to have the vintage for when you really care? 

My Duelund gutted speakers and amp are not just used for HiFi but movies, TV and my daughter even plays video games on it. (And loves it)

Rare vintage tubes for TV and video games seems criminal!

That being said I have old 12ax7's that I am sure have more than 10,000 hours on them!
Eric

Are you talking about boutique caps? 


In the the beginning of this thread when purchasing Mundorf Supreme caps and Duelund VSF I went in with the mindset I had just thrown my money away. I could not believe the difference!

Then bought what was new at the time CAST caps for the tweeters. I was sure I would not hear the difference from already pricey VSF caps (people even said so at that level one can not tell difference) and when I hooked them up I thought I wired up something incorrect! Sooooo much less noise.

i just got back a Fisher 500c from my repair guy who is a great guy and does great work. Spent many hundreds on it and it sounds bad! 

All run of the mill caps, electrolytics and resistors. Everything is "working" perfect.

He has a pair of Duelund VSF caps in the shop that are shot... He put them on the machine to show me. Obviously not impressed.

So he has a bias against boutique caps and their "value". I did say those were speaker caps that he pulled out of an amp and were NOT for electronics. (100v caps)

He likely pulled $400 worth of caps that were not working and replaced with <$20 that work fine.

So we all get where he is coming from.

He has also saw 1 or 2 of my Duelund caps leak oil. A Jensen Copper paper tube arc inside and a few leads fall off my Jupiter Copper Foil caps and both Ampohm caps leak.

So is he wrong to have a dim view of boutique caps?

He can of course not deal with this for repairs.

So what is value to him? Or any repair technician? 


value to me?

Since The same guy has fixed up all three Fishers I have which is a run of the mill parts Fisher 500c vs. Hotrod Fisher's I will be testing and retesting the "value" of around $1k per amp in caps. 




So far for tone and dynamics it's lights out great value to me!