Volleyguy1, one of these days maybe you will be able to listen in stereo with both channels matched. I highly recommend it! |
I have to agree with a lot of what Johnk said. Too many people, including folks on this thread, get seduced by the "I modded it so it must be better" perspective. In all equipment, but especially with speaker crossovers, a "better" component may not actually result in better sound. There are too many other factors involved.
Consider another context. We all know that when we try different preamps or amps in our system, it is often easy to notice certain qualities that we think are improvements but it may take longer to notice failings. Well, the same thing occurs when swapping capacitors, chokes, resistors and wire in a speaker crossover. The new part will undoubtedly change the sound but is it really an improvement? Are there some negative qualities that go along with the positive ones? Often the negatives may seem minor at first but become major issues later on. It does indeed help to return to the unmodified version as a reality check. (I don't agree with making changes to one speaker and leaving the other stock but that was beaten to death earlier in this thread.)
Adding to the confusion is the breakin factor. Nearly all new component parts take time to reveal their true sonic character, so they can't be judged within minutes or even hours after being installed. My approach with crossover parts is to hook them up with a dummy load on another system and run them 24/7 with FM to let them break in prior to trying them in my speakers. Then, after I install them, I switch back and forth between the prior component and the new one every few days or so in order to get a real fix on how each of them sounds (in the context of my speaker). This takes a lot of time and I would not say it is always fun, but I don't know of any other way to evaluate parts objectively.
As an example, I have been trying Duelund CAST resistors in my speaker crossovers. These took a long time to reveal their true character. If I had only listened for a few hours, I would have said they were unacceptable---detailed and dynamic, but too wispy in the highs and lightweight in the bass. Yet after putting a lot more hours on them, I am now very pleased with how they sound. (Incidentally, the CAST resistor sounds nothing at like the regular Duelund resistor.)
So the bottom line is that you do have to go back and forth between parts to assess their true sonic qualities. Some people may be happy after installing a new capacitor and never look back. That's fine for them, and I am not critical of their experience if they are happy with the end result. But this approach won't work for all applications especially where the part being replaced is already of high quality. I would also add that swapping in a brand new component like a Duelund cap that takes a very long time to break in means that it will be difficult to state with any precision how it changed the sound since you are relying on memories from weeks or months earlier.
It should also be obvious that you can't change lots of parts all at one time and then try to say what changes were due to what part. This is one of the things that frustrates me so much about Jeff Day's long blog about his Tannoy Westminsters, but that is for another day. |
Charles1dad, Thanks for the additional comments. I also took a look at your system page and saw your comments there. Very helpful! |
Charles1dad,
What value CAST caps did you order? Were you able to use the values that PCX has on sale?
I haven't placed my order yet, but plan to do so soon. |
Charles1dad, You said you replaced your speaker caps with CAST. What speaker caps did you replace? Your cost of $850 for the pair of speaker caps suggests that it's a rather small value. Did you replace the full cap or are you using the CAST as a bypass? What cap was in the speaker before the replacement?
Sorry for all the questions but I am trying to determine the most cost effective approach for my own speakers. I need both a 7.5uf and 3.0uf for my high-pass crossover, and the low-pass uses a 5.6uf. Trying to do all those with CAST would be very expensive. I recently hooked up a brand new 1uf CAST in parallel with the 7.5uf and I was really quite surprised by the magnitude of improvement. That has me thinking of using smaller CAST caps just as bypass caps. |
My pair of 7.5uf CAST caps arrived today right on schedule. I will be trying them out this weekend as the main high-pass crossover cap in my high-efficiency speakers. It will replace a blend of 6.8uf Mundorf Supreme and 1.0uf Duelund CAST. That blend has been the best sounding cap to date in that spot, but I am hoping that the single large value CAST will be even better.
I was surprised by how big the cap is---6.5" in diameter and a little over 1" in height. Pictures don't quite do it justice. |
Volleyguy1, That's interesting about the vintage inductor. While I am waiting for my 7.5uf CAST caps to break in, I plan on trying some old Altec iron core chokes in place of the Jensen choke in my high-pass crossover.
I notice that no one in this thread has mentioned the importance of mounting of crossover components. I was reminded of the importance of mounting after installing the new Duelund cap. Initially I had the cap lying flat on its bottom surface and I was a bit concerned that the cap sounded so dead and dark. I know from past Duelunds that they can start out this way so I wasn't too upset but I did want to do something to make it sound better while it broke in. I tried various objects under the cap to raise it off the wood surface it was resting on such as felt, rubber, wood and a brass cone. The cone started out as the perfect antidote making the treble sharper and more lively. After a few hours, however, it was too bright and I went to a 3/4" cube of Baltic Birch plywood---just a single cube under one edge of the cap so the cap is at an angle resting on the cube on one side and on a single point of the cap on the other side. The little cube now has just the right balance.
My point in raising this is not to endorse a particular mounting as the best way to attach a CAST cap, but simply to highlight the importance of the mounting. I haven't made any final plans for how to mount my crossover components, but my tentative plan is to attach them to a thin Baltic Birch plywood panel (1/2" or less) which in turn will be attached to the outside of the back panel of my speaker cabinet, probably with some type of rubber damping gaskets so the crossover board does not actually make direct contact with the speaker cabinet. The crossover components themselves will be secured to the plywood panel by some means that elevates them off the panel so they are in free-air mounting as much as possible. The CAST cap is so big and heavy that I am thinking of using (3) 3/4" Baltic Birch cubes under it and maybe (3) dowels on the circumference to hold it in place. |
For another perspective, I avoid bypass caps whenever possible for the simple reason that I can always hear them. They add a discontinuity very similar to adding a super-tweeter to a full-range speaker system. There is a heightening of treble extension and speed, and the soundstage seems larger and more dramatic, but after a while I find the effects of the bypass cap to be distracting and unnatural. Often, but not always, the bypass cap also causes the bass to become lean. These effects are audible whenever I try a bypass---coupling caps, power supply, speaker crossovers, etc.
Obviously, some folks do not react this way since otherwise no one would use bypass caps, but I am just pointing out that there is another perspective on them. In my view, you should always use a single cap with the correct value, and if the application has important sonic implications (and most do) then use the best sounding cap you can find. |
I followed Volleyguy's lead regarding vintage chokes and swapped in some old Altec iron-core chokes from the late '70s or early '80s. They replaced Jantzen 15g. P-Core (ferrous powder) chokes as the shunt element in my high-pass crossover. The values are not identical----the Altecs are 2.0mH and the Jantzens are 2.2mH---but close enough. The Altecs do a number of things better. They are faster, more dynamic and more detailed; but they are also a bit lean. For now I am leaving them in but the real take-away for me is how important this shunt element is sonically. I really had not expected this magnitude of change merely by swapping chokes of basically the same value and same DCR. In my low-pass crossover I use North Creek 10g air core inductors. I may look into something similar for the high-pass. |
I don't have any trouble seeing how important the woofer inductor (low-pass) is sonically. What surprised me was that the high-pass inductor is also very important.
I tried a number of different chokes on my woofer before settling on the North Creek 10g, and the type of choke used in the low-pass has a major effect on sound quality, perhaps even more than the cap in the high-pass section. Of course, I didn't try a CAST choke and I don't doubt that it could sound better than the North Creek but it's a question of where to draw the line. My woofer has a 3.0mH and the high-pass has a 2.2. The CAST versions would cost over $1000 each, i.e. $4000 for a stereo pair. The North Creek 10g costs about $200 each or $800 for all of them. This all gets rather expensive pretty quickly!
That said I do think the CAST caps have proven to be good value. In other words, the improvement in sound quality has been worth the cost. So I won't rule out the inductors but I am resisting. |
I read the 10Audio review of Sonicap Gen 1 vs. Mundorf S/O vs. V-Cap OIMP caps. I certainly agree with his conclusion about the problems with bypass caps. I don't agree about Silver/oil sounding like Sonicap Gen 1, however. I have used Gen 1 caps a number of times and they are a decent sounding cap. The Gen 1 is too lean for my tastes but the main problem is that its resolution doesn't extend deep enough; at first it sounds detailed but you quickly realize the detail is superficial. I suspect at the time the reviewer he did the comparisons (2005 and 2006) he hadn't heard what a truly detailed cap can sound like. By this I mean a V-Cap TFTF or CUTF, Duelund CAST or, at a somewhat lesser level, a large value Sonicap Platinum (such as 1uf). Without a quality reference cap like these, it is hard to judge detail retrieval capability. |
Charles1dad, I agree with you 100%. More natural sound and less "hifi" hype is what we want. So far I would put the Duelund CAST caps in that category. The speaker crossover caps definitely. My only concern at this point concerns the .47uf CAST caps on the output of my phono stage. I have a nagging feeling that I may have lost something when I took out the 2uf V-Caps that I had there previously. The Duelund is faster and cleaner sounding, but perhaps a bit too cool and analytical. I need to swap them again to be sure. I am also wondering if my 1uf CAST caps may do better there than the .47. The .47 has different leads than my 1uf or the new 7.5uf. Both of the bigger caps have a copper braided leads but the .47 has solid thin-gauge leads. |
Charles, what value cap did you use on your DAC output? Does it have copper braid leads or solid wire? |
Micheal, can you give us any more details on the direct coupled 2A3 amp? |
That's great news Ricevs! I will keep an eye out for the new Jupiters.
In the meantime, I am trying some JB JFX Premiums that were recommended earlier in this thread. They are quite good sounding by any standard, and when you factor in the price (about 5% of a Duelund CAST) they are a real find. |
I agree with Volleyguy's hierarchy for the most part. Improving couplings caps in the upstream electronics makes the biggest difference. I would probably tweak the ranking just a bit. Going from biggest improvement to less:
1. Coupling caps in linestage
2. Coupling caps in phono stage
3. Resistors in key locations of phono and linestage
4. Capacitor in tweeter crossover
5. Coupling caps in power amps
6. Resistors in tweeter crossover (if any)
7. Inductor in woofer crossover
8. Capacitor in woofer crossover (if any)
9. Inductor in tweeter crossover (if any)
Of course, the degree of difference that a cap replacement makes depends on what type of cap is being replaced and by what. You can expect a much bigger difference replacing a Solen with a CAST than a V-Cap with a CAST, for example.
It is often said that no capacitor is perfect and they all have some type of sonic failing. That is certainly true. Yet I don't recall ever reading any description of the Duelund's failings. There's no question the Duelund CAST copper sounds very good, and we tend to focus on all the things it does right but it isn't perfect.
Based on my experience with 3 pairs of CAST caps (.47 at 630v, 1.0 at 630v, and 7.5 at 100v), and having tried the high-voltage caps in several locations, both as bypasses and solo, I would offer this one complaint. The Duelunds don't have enough high-frequency life and sparkle. They sound just a bit too smooth in the upper mids and treble and not quite as airy and resolving as I would like. Now you won't hear those areas as problems if the CAST replaced a Solen. But compared to a 1.0uf Sonicap Platinum, that's what I hear. The SP has more life, more air and more finely resolved detail in the upper highs. The Duelund sounds better overall than the SP---better balanced tonally, more detailed, more neutral---but I do miss the special qualities of the Sonicap Platinum in the treble. (Note: these comments only apply to the 1uf SP, not the smaller values).
What do the rest of you think about the CAST caps? Do you hear any negatives? |
I forgot one to mention that the CAST caps do not all sound alike. I recently swapped my 1.0uf for the .47uf. Both were fully broken in. The .47 is thinner in the bass, not as warm, not as much body. The 1.0 however is a bit darker and less lively. I suspect this may be due, at least in part, to the different types of leads. My .47 has solid wire leads; and the 1.0 has thicker braid leads. I notice the Silver CAST has Duelund's flat silver leads. I use the Duelund 1.0 silver wire in several critical places in my preamps and power amps, and I like it a lot. It might be a worthwhile improvement to replace the existing leads on CAST caps with Duelund's own wire. |
Grannyring,
I agree that in some instances the cap values can be responsible for a change in tonal balance. The smaller value cap has a higher -3db frequency. But in my test I used a very high impedance load (330K) so this shouldn't be a factor.
I also agree the JFX JB Premium caps are quite a bargain. They sound pretty good and at the price you just can't go wrong. But if we disregard price and value, I have found them to be too bright and too lean (at least in speaker crossovers), and they don't pass along enough detail. For just a little more money, I prefer Sonicap Gen 1. |
Volleyguy, it appears we are hearing the same things with the CAST caps. As good as they are, and overall they are the best sounding cap I have ever used, the CAST caps are not perfect. We both notice less air and sparkle compared to some other caps.
It appears you think this character may be a good thing, that the CAST has less "resonance" and is actually more accurate. I don't know about that. Perhaps comparing the copper CAST to a silver CAST would help to clarify the situation. Even better would be a fair A/B test against a direct wire. If done right, this would tell us whether the copper CAST is lacking in air and sparkle or simply telling the truth.
In any case, just speaking for myself, I am not all that interested in trying to understand the physics behind why one cap sounds different from another. The only thing that matters to me is how it sounds. Even more to the point: how it sounds in my system. We are just hobbyists, not manufacturers, so we don't have to worry about how something might sound in a different system, only our own. From that perspective, I will stick with my observation that when I use a CAST cap I notice less air and sparkle. In practice all that means is that I need to balance out the overall tonal balance through other means, I.e. Another cap somewhere else or perhaps a resistor change somewhere to offset the effects of the CAST.
I would definitely be careful about using too many of any single type of cap in one's system because the colorations become much more obvious. This applies to CAST as well as any other cap type. |
Volleyguy, As to why the linestage coupler should be more critical sonically than the phono couplers, I really have no idea. That's simply what I have observed. But this is consistent with my experience generally that the linestage is the single most critical electronics in the system. Anything done to the linestage seems to have more impact than if the same change is made in the phono stage or power amps, whether it's changing the power cord, a tube, a change in the power supply, a resistor or the coupling cap. |
The shunt components in a multi-order crossover (2d, 3rd, 4th order) are very important sonically, but not to the same degree as the series components. Put another way, the parallel components make a major difference, the series components make a hugely major difference!
In my 2-way speakers, I use a 2d order crossover so the high-pass has a series cap and shunt choke, and the high-pass has the reverse---series choke and shunt cap. Each one is very important but I would rank them (from most important to less) like this: 1. Tweeter cap, 2. Woofer choke, 3. Woofer cap, 4. Tweeter choke. It's possible that 3 and 4 might be reversed, hard to say for sure. I am more confident about the other rankings. Of course, the crossover frequency is also important. My speakers have a 1200Hz crossover so both drivers play vital roles.
Replacing a Solen with a CAST even in the shunt position should make a very worthwhile improvement. |
That is called a "Zobel network." You probably have a resistor in the range of 8 to 20 ohms in series with the Solen, and this pair is after the woofer choke and in parallel with the woofer. This network counters the woofer's tendency to have a rising impedance above the crossover frequency. It can smooth out the frequency response above the crossover point.
I would expect the cap in the Zobel to be significant sonically but not to the same extent as a crossover shunt cap. But I haven't actually tried it so this somewhat speculative. |
Good idea Grannyring! Everything will be truly "warmed" up. |
I have tried standard Duelund resistors in my speaker crossovers, but not CAST. I don't believe there was a higher grade of Duelund resistors available when I bought mine but I could be wrong.
In any case, the standard Duelund resistor is a mixed bag. In some ways, it sounds better than a Mills 12w wirewound resistor, but in other ways the Mills sounds better. The Duelund is warmer and more detailed, but the Mills has deeper bass and has more high frequency air and extension. Initially I replaced all 4 Mills resistors in each speaker with Duelunds and was very pleased with the improved detail. But I quickly missed the speed and excitement as well as extended highs of the Mills. That led me to put back first one Mills and then a second, which is what I have used ever since. The combination of 2 Duelunds and 2 Mills seems to give me the best of both worlds. This is something that will probably vary from speaker to speaker. But the moral here is that the standard Duelund may not always be an improvement, at least not compared to a Mills which happens to be a very good sounding resistor and much less expensive. Of course, the CAST resistor may sound much better than the standard version. Eventually I plan to try some and find out. |
My crossover uses 4 resistors, all in the high-pass circuit (tweeter crossover). Two of them are an attenuation network immediately following the actual crossover components (one cap and one choke since it's a 2d order crossover). I use a Mills 12w wirewound for the series resistor in the attenuation network and a standard Duelund for the shunt.
The high-pass also uses a RC network for some equalization of the compression driver. This network is in series with the driver. I use a Mills in this spot. Lastly there is a Zobel network consisting of a small choke and resistor that is in parallel with the driver. I use a Duelund for the Zobel.
I would not conclude from my experience that series resistors are always more critical than shunt resistors. Both resistors in my attenuation network are very critical. The series resistor might be the most critical, I'm not sure, but they are both very important. The other two resistors in my crossover, one series and one shunt, are less critical sonically. |
Grannyring, I haven't experimented with Wimas. Back in the days when I had ARC preamps I listened to Wimas because they were used extensively in the ARC power supplies, but I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that----too many other variables.
On your comment about 2 camps of people----one appreciating bypass caps and the other disliking bypass caps---I agree completely. Some like 'em, some don't. I am in the Don't Like Them camp. Each time I try a bypass, I hear an emphasis in the highs, like a spotlight has been turned on. This accentuates treble speed, focus and apparent detail and there is more "air" in the mids and highs. These qualities seem---at first---like genuine improvements. Unfortunately, to my ears, they quickly become artificial and unmusical. The unbypassed cap also sounds more coherent; it doesn't change character across the tonal spectrum. The unbypassed cap sounds like one voice rather than a smeared chorus of different voices. |
Grannyring, I have used Mundorf Supreme (regular version, not the Silver, Silver/Oil or Silver/Gold/Oil) in my speaker crossovers for several years. I find it to be a very nice sounding musical cap but with some fairly obvious tonal colorations. It has a rich warm mid bass and slightly soft highs.
I have tried many different bypass caps in an effort to make the Mundorf more neutral sounding, but to date nothing has sounded better overall than the solo Mundorf. Most bypass caps sacrifice the smooth coherent sound of the Mundorf by itself. For a while I thought I had a winner with a 1uf Sonicap Platinum bypass. The SP has a solid low end and fast, clean, airy highs. (The SP is well broken in since I have used it for years in various projects.). Just this morning, I tried removing the SP for the first time in about two weeks, and sure enough I still prefer the Mundorf on its own. The SP, as good as it is, makes the Mundorf less coherent; it no longer speaks with the same voice.
The only real solution is to replace the Mundorf with a Duelund CAST. That's what I did last year with the high-pass cap. A single Duelund (fully broken in) in that spot sounds much better than any other single cap or cap cocktail that I tried for the high-pass. So I figure it's only a matter of time before I buy another big Duelund for the low-pass. I just wish they weren't so expensive.
By the way, I tried a .47uf Duelund as a bypass on the Mundorf in the woofer xover, and it was even less coherent than the Sonicap Platinum bypass. Also, you might think a more expensive Mundorf like a S/G/O would make a nice match with a regular Supreme, but they didn't work out at all. Too much emphasis on the highs and a loss of coherency. The S/G/O sounds pretty nice by itself but not as a bypass. |
Regismc, very interesting! Have you tried the s/g/o plus CuTF combination as a coupler as opposed to power conditioner? |
Volleyguy, did you mean to say the tweeter inductor is in series with the tweeter? That would be odd since the choke will roll off the highs. The tweeter choke should be in a shunt position, i.e. after a series capacitor and in parallel with the tweeter. The two reactive components---a series cap and shunt choke---will give a 2d order crossover. For a 3rd order, there would be three reactive components---the series cap, the shunt choke, and a second cap located after the choke and again in series with the tweeter. |
Grannyring, do the Jupiters have more high frequency refinement and air than the Duelund CAST? To my ears that is the one area where the CAST fall short. |
Grannyring, how would you describe the Jupiters compared to the JB JFX? I know you felt the JFX was a decent alternative to the CAST caps a few months ago. Since my reactions to the JFX were not as positive, I am trying to get some context for your comments on the Jupiter. |
My Duelund CAST resistors just arrived today so I will be able to compare the CAST to the regular Duelund resistors I have been using the last year or two. I will post some details after I am sure the new resistors are fully broken in.
I also have another pair of CAST capacitors on order so I will have CAST caps on the woofer as well as the tweeter. |
TAS, If the Nichicon 47uf caps are really the output caps, you will probably be able to replace them with a much smaller value. I can't say that for certain without looking at a schematic but I suspect you could replace them with a cap in the .47 to 1.0uf range. The mfr most likely used the big Nichicon because it gave a whole lot of capacitance for a small investment in size as well as cost. Unless your preamp input impedance is very low (less than 50k) or the DAC has a low value loading resistor on the output, a small film cap should probably work fine. |
Tas, sorry for the confusion on the cap value. Too early in the morning! My comments on replacing the electrolytic with a small value film cap still apply, but the 470 µF value increases my suspicion that this is really a power supply filter rather than an output coupler.
One final comment. Just because a particular part like a Duelund capacitor has nearly unanimous praise does not mean that it will be an overall improvement in a particular application. For example, many years ago I made the mistake of buying a Threshold FET 10E phono stage based on reviewer recommendations. It turned out it had a large nonpolar electrolytic capacitor on the output so I figured I could improve the sound by replacing the electrolytic with a film capacitor. I tried a number of popular capacitors for that day, all of which made significant changes in the sound but overall I kept returning to the cheap electrolytic as the best sound for that particular preamp. It is quite possible you will find that the 470 µF electrolytic used by the manufacturer has some qualities that you sacrifice with a replacement film capacitor. I'm not saying that to discourage you but you need to go into this with your eyes open. |
Don't overlook the possibility that the DAC may have a direct-coupled output in which case you don't need any output caps. You really need a tech to look over the unit to make sure what part is doing what before you start replacing things. On an expensive unit like that, you want to be especially careful that you don't damage the circuit board. |
I appreciate Frederik's candor but I wish there had been some sort of acknowledgement prior to this that the CAST caps do not all sound the same. At least this would help explain different reactions to them. For example, I have stated in this thread before that my two 630v CAST caps----the .47 and 1.0---sound different. The only visible difference in their construction is the different type of leads: the .47 has solid wire that is silver in color and the 1.0 has stranded or pleated copper. I had always assumed the differences in sound between these two are due to the different leads. Now I have to wonder if the caps may be different inside as well.
I have never compared the 630v caps to my 100v caps in my speaker crossover, but given Frederik's statement above that they use different construction, I suspect that may explain why I am much more happy with the 100v caps in speakers than I am with the 630v caps in my electronics. In my totally arbitrary ranking, I would give my 7.5uf, 100v CAST cap a 9, the 1.0uf, 630v CAST an 8, and the .47uf, 630v CAST a 6. |
Thanks Frederik. I guess the leadouts make a worthwhile difference.
I noticed that the leads on your Silver CAST caps are your silver ribbon wiring (which I like very much for internal wiring in my amps and preamps). The next time I try the .47 CAST caps, I will attach some extra 0.5 wiring I have, soldering the wires close to the body of the capacitor, to use as connecting leads. |
Volleyguy, I just checked the PCX website and it looks like their "special" pricing for certain CAST values has now become their regular prices. The prices all appear the same to me. Now the prices for the CAST speaker caps are another story. They seem to be going up every couple of months. I am glad I ordered mine when I did. The final set for finishing my crossover are due later this month. |
Granny, I am in the same position as you: I would like to try some CAST inductors but I don't dare since I can't justify the cost. Instead, I went with North Creek air core inductors---a 10g on the woofer and 12g on the compression driver. I have tried about a half dozen different types of crossover chokes and the North Creeks are the best sounding by far. They aren't cheap but I consider them very good value. Of course, CAST coils could leave them in the dust for all I know, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
The North Creeks are all wound to order so you can get any value you want. The website also has a lot of good information about different types of crossover chokes. |
Grannyring, I think you will be very happy with the North Creek chokes. Among the others I tried are several other brands of air cores, several Jantzen ferrite cores, vintage Altec iron core, and several copper foils. I had complaints about each of them but not the North Creeks.
The North Creeks don't take long to break in either. I didn't notice any real changes after the first few hours. |
John, with a first-order crossover the slope is so gradual that there will be little difference in sound due strictly to the 3.3 vs. 3.52 difference in value. You certainly want both speakers to be matched but either value could be used. Of course, it is hard to isolate the sonic differences due to cap value alone---any comparison is complicated because different caps sound different, even two caps of the same mfr and model.
From your description, it appears that these speakers were "improved" by some prior owner who added a bypass cap. I agree with you that this nearly always causes problems even though the bypass cap may sound more spectacular at first. If I were you, I would probably go with a single 3.3uf cap. |
Grannyring,
Are these the Jupiter caps you are using?
http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor_film_jupiter_ht_copper.html |
Charles, everyone reading this thread knows you replaced a Solen with a Duelund CAST and noticed a big improvement. That's great and I am glad you're happy, but it's hardly surprising. Solens are, to put it politely, not a very high threshold to surpass. Here's an analogy: if someone replaces the Pioneer transistor amp he's been using for the past 20 years with an Audio Research preamp and amp, he will be very pleased with the improvement. That doesn't mean, however, that ARC is the best sounding amp in the world. Without hearing other high-quality amps, he may be quite happy, but if he hears VTL, VAC, Emotive Audio, CJ etc., he will realize that the ARC equipment has flaws and he may prefer another brand instead.
It's the same thing with capacitors. You need to try a lot of different caps and in various applications to gain a full appreciation of each cap's sonic qualities. A few months ago I posted something in this thread asking people to describe any negative qualities they hear in CAST caps. As I recall, Grannyring and I were the only ones who had any complaints. That's not because we have super-human hearing. It's because we have spent a lot of time comparing different caps.
And that is why I say in order to gain a more complete, a more nuanced understanding of what a cap sounds like, you have to compare it to other caps of similar quality. That hardly seems like a controversial statement. |
Charles,
Thank you for a mature and thoughtful post. I agree with you completely about this being a passionate hobby. As a result, it's all too easy to get caught up in minor differences in viewpoint and lose sight of the bigger issues. Too often we emphasize differences and ignore common traits and interests. You and I (as well as most others here) love our music libraries and anything we can do to increase the enjoyment of our LPs and CDs is appreciated. Duelund capacitors have improved my speakers and yours so we are definitely in the same camp. Furthermore, it was your enthusiasm for Ocellia cables that tipped the scale for me and caused me to order a set, which have also improved the sound of all of my records. So sharing our experiences and our enthusiasm can definitely benefit us all.
What we need here is someone to post that all capacitors sound the same, all amps sound the same, and all cables sound the same. Then we can all join together and beat on the common enemy. Peace. |
Excellent news Grannyring! I am glad the North Creek inductors worked well with your speakers. They certainly do with mine. As I said before, I would not be shocked if the Duelund CAST inductors are even better but you have to draw the line somewhere. For my values, the two pairs of North Creeks ran about $650 total and the CAST inductors would have been $6500(!) at full retail. |
Actually I no longer use any Duelund resistors. Just Mills and PathAudio. |
VPN, I am not Tom but I have some suggestions. First, while placement is important, I don't think there are any one-size-fits-all generalizations to be made. In my case, with a Duelund CAST crossover cap, I started out with 3 brass cones under its flat surface. This combination added some life and speed which was necessary at first because the cap starts out rather dark and lifeless. As it broke in, I tried other arrangements and for a while liked having just 1 cone close to one edge of the cap leaving the other side of the cap touching the mounting surface at just one point. That worked fine for a while but eventually I went to 3 small cubes of Baltic Birch plywood each one about 3/4" on a side. That gave to my ears the most natural balance. So you need to try different supports but be prepared to reach different conclusions as to what sounds best as the CAST cap breaks in.
For my big North Creek inductors, I used the same 3 cube supports but the mounting arrangement did not make as much difference. |
New Duelund CAST caps installed in my speakers today. These are for the woofer shunt caps in a 2d order crossover. Even stone cold, they trounce the Mundorf Supreme caps that were previously my favorite for that spot. The excellent midrange detail, tight yet powerful bass, and excellent dynamics all far exceed my expectations, and this is with only 5 hours! |
Grannyring, I completely agree with you about the importance of the shunt components. In my case, I have 2 shunt parts in the crossover itself---a shunt coil on the high frequency driver and a shunt cap on the woofer. Each of these is critical sonically. Different types of caps and coils, even with the same value, can sound very different.
In my design, I also have a Zobel network on the HF driver consisting of a small coil in series with a 5R resistor, in parallel with the driver itself. Each of these parts is also important sonically. I cannot imagine why anyone would say they aren't important.
My crossover is on an outboard panel on the floor behind each speaker. I made several changes to the crossovers when I moved them outside the speakers so I can't say what sonic changes were due to the outboard location alone. But regardless of sonics it is certainly easier to change parts when everything is external and easily accessible.
I will take some photos of the crossovers and post them shortly. |
Grannyring, I have compared PathAudio and CAST resistors in my high-pass crossover. They both sound good but quite different. I only have one value of PathAudio which means I have only tried it in one spot but it's a critical place---the shunt side of the attenuation network which follows the crossover cap and choke. In this spot, I prefer the PathAudio. It is very clean and detailed and it has excellent bass (yes, the tweeter components affect the bass). At least initially the PathAudio is dark and recessed in the mids, but both of those colorations seem to fade away with more use. The CAST also has excellent detail and it may be even more dynamic, but the CAST resistor has several tonal irregularities---a projection in the upper mids and a serious rolloff in the bass. The treble on the CAST is also rather wispy. Be aware that both of these resistors take a very long time to settle in. The PathAudio supposedly requires several hundred hours. I don't have that many yet so it may get even better.
I use a total of 4 resistors in my high-pass crossover, and I have tried Mills, CAST, regular Duelunds and AudioNote tantalums in most of these spots. As of today I prefer a mix of Mills wirewound for the two series resistors, and one CAST and one PathAudio for the two shunt resistors.
By the way, regular Duelunds do not sound at all like CAST. They have excessive warmth and a severe rolloff in the highs, virtually the opposite of CAST resistors. |
