Can the top end of a PrimaLuna Evo integrated be tamed w/tube rolling?


This weekend I have a PrimaLuna Evo 3 as a house guest to compare with my Supernait 3 solid state integrated. Both are about the same price, basically tube vs solid state. I am a big fan of the Naim PRaT but I also find the depth and transparency of tubes very engaging. The Evo integrated on its own lacks the rhythm and pace of the Naim but it does have transparency and imaging in spades.

So the idea is maybe run an Evo 3 preamp instead along with a Naim 250 (or just use the amp section of the Supernait).

But one problem I cannot get over is that there is a very fatiguing high end to the Evo 3. Cymbals, snare drums, top edge of distorted guitars, etc are pretty harsh at any volume higher than background music. To compare, my vintage Luxman valve preamp into the SN3 does not have this quality (but it lacks the refinement of the PrimaLuna).

It would be ideal to do some tube rolling to get the best of all worlds... is there a tube selection that could work with the Evo preamp that would tame the harsher high end and smooth out the sound a little bit on top? Or is this just a part of the PrimaLuna signature?
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Showing 11 responses by jsqt

@tvad they are Volti Rivals.

@erik_squires replacing caps on a brand-new amp?
@tvad yes they are 6ohm speakers and I think I am getting best results with the 4ohm taps.
I am comparing a Supernait 3 and a PrimaLuna Evo 3 in the exact same system. The PrimaLuna has a harsher top end than the Supernait 3. Period... I unplug the cables from one amp and plug them into the other. It is most definitely the amp. Not the cables, not the speakers, not the room, or whatever mystic Yoda garbage is in the post above this one.

Just looking for a straight answer about tubes, thanks.
Did you buy the PrimaLuna from Upscale Audio? If so...even if not...I’d suggest calling Kevin Deal and telling him what you’re hearing. Ask him what tubes he would recommend to smooth out the rough edges. Better tubes than the new production East European or Chinese stock tubes will definitely improve the sound of your Evo 300.

I will call on Monday - I don't own the amp at this point, it was lent from a dealer to help make some comparisons with the Supernait 3 as I was having some issues with that amp and I needed some kind of benchmark to compare the sound. 

I do like the Evo 3 though so I will reach out on Monday. I do have a pair of Mullard 12AU7/ECC82s sitting around here that I thought about swapping the Evo driver tubes over the weekend, but because I don't own the amp I did not want to risk any problems. 

Just posting here in the event anyone had similar experience with the Evo 3 or experience tube rolling in the Evo 3 in general that could comment on that. 

The stock sound does seem like it was voiced to be "exciting" out of the box... in fact kind of like a sublte Aphex Aural Exciter effect, or maybe it's just my ears.
I've owned valve components by Luxman, Rogue, Backert Labs, and Quad, and now spent the past 24 hours with this Evo 300. It is a very nice amp, but without question compared to my memory of those other units, it has a more pronounced top end which makes cymbals, distorted guitars, etc more forward than my experience with these other amps. Certainly more so than the Supernait 3 I'm comparing it to. 

Was just wondering if swapping out tubes could smooth out that top end a bit. I guess I will call Upscale on Monday.
Do it...if only to know that swapping different tubes will make a difference, even if you’re not sold on the Mullard ECC82. I preferred RCA 12AU7 Clear Top side getters in a preamp that used 12AU7.

Thanks I may just give it a shot. I have these left over from my Backert Labs preamp. They were the stock tubes which I swapped out for Mazda Ciftes. Then when I sold the preamp the buyer wanted the Ciftes so I have had these sitting around for over a year on my desk. 

@ps that is helpful, thanks. I wonder if my problem is that I’m just A/B comparing to the Naim amp which is more rolled off on the top end and seems a bit smoother (yet less immersive and more laid back).

I have swapped out the stock driver 12AU7s for the Mullards I have. It does sound a little less toppy and also strangely enough the balance is more centered.

The Evo 300 I am listening to is a floor demo incidentally which runs about 8-9 hours a day for the past 3 months, so well broken in at this point.
@erik_squires thanks I will do a search and see what I come up with. It would be an interesting read.
Thanks for all the input everyone. I have swapped out the stock driver tubes for a pair of Mullard 12AU7/ECC82 and found that it has smoothed out the top end, and also centered the balance better which tells me maybe the stock 12AU7s may have had some uneven wear on them or something. 

It is definitely sounding better after listening into the late night last night and again this morning. This morning, swapping back out with the Supernait 3 and the Evo definitely has an edge on transparent realism and engaging sound. I am using the Naim NDX2/XPS DR as the streamer/DAC so that helps quite a bit.

I'm pretty much ready to abandon the idea of trying an EVO preamp with the Supernait as I just don't think the Supernait is working well with my speakers. I have struggled with it since September and the EVO seems to be dialing in right out of the box. 

@erik_squires thanks I definitely have the room treatment covered pretty well in my room. These are some temporary 244 bass traps for corner and first reflections (took them down from my home theater) but I have new ones on order for permanent installation... unfortunately with Covid GIK is several months behind on production and shipping. My November order should arrive the first week of February (hopefully). 

https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-nh4Np6/i-b8N2h4n/A


Just to follow up on this, I am currently running the Evo 300 with Mullard 12AU7s in the drive sockets and Tung Sol KT150s for power (in triode mode) and it is sounding fantastic. The Supernait 3 has found a new home and this combination of the Evo 300 integrated and NDX2/XPSDR is simply amazing. I've been through a lot of gear over the past 3 years but this is quite a magical combination. It does help that I spent nearly 6 months working on optimizing my room in an effort to get the Supernait 3 sounding its best. Now the PrimaLuna benefits from that. 

I guess the next experiment may be trying out the Evo 300 preamp and mono blocks versus the integrated to see if there is even further gains to be made.