Check out Omega Loudspeakers. They mostly use Fostex drivers and sound very interesting.
Seems like installing a super tweeter in parallel is going to hurt your speaker's high impedance. That may not be a good thing but you will probably just have to try it yourself to see if it really works. Arthur
Tell us a little bit about your system, your room and your musical preference. This may help with a recommendation.
FWIW, I'm currently using a single driver speaker built using the Hemp Acoustics FR8.0DIY driver. It is the first affordable single driver speaker I've ever heard that I could live with. In my room it has great bass response and the treble response is good enough that I don't feel like I'm missing anything.
My speakers were a DIY for a review in The Ultra-Fi Times webzine. You could easily reproduce them for about $600-$700. They are a very easy build. Here is a link to my speakers:
Omega makes a similar speaker that looks better on paper than mine. It is called MaxHemp. It is much more expensive, but it is factory built and looks beautiful. Mine aren't so great looking and would look out of place in a nice livingroom.
The Single Driver Website:
if you've owned 30 pairs of speakers and haven't been satisfied, the 31st pair won't get you there....no matter what design it is.....enjoy what you've got, whatever it is...or just stop for a while.
I currently own Omega speakers with my SET amp and am enjoying it. Please see my latest System in my signature below.
They're relatively new to me and am still evaluating. I can share my opinion shortly if you're interested.
Going off on a tangent...have you ever tried AKG K1000 "Ear Speakers"?
Hammer Dynamics Super-12
kit ($650, 97dB/8ohm)
It uses a 12" fullrange single-driver for 40Hz-10k+Hz, then a coaxially mounted supertweeter is used for 10k+Hz and above. 1st order crossover to minimize phase shift and distortion. It is is mounted in simple 70L ported cabinet and produces some of the punchiest, most powerful, bass I've come across in the FR speakers I've heard. The midrange is fantastic and highs just a good.
The Fullrange Driver Forum has a whole section dedicated to simple, cheap, Super-12 mods
to raise the performance to an even better level.
I've owned them for 4+ years and listened to a lot of other FR systems in that time. Some were better overall, some were equal in one way or another, many were worse.
A couple of years ago I made the jump to a $12k+ FR speaker system(Fostex double-horns + dual subwoofers) after a few years of auditioning, but I still own the Super-12's. They are that good, especially when taking cost into consideration.
I consider them to be a near-perfect first excursion into high(ish)-efficiency FR speakers. They are affordable, perform extremely well, ably demonstrate all the best and unique qualities of single drivers, and provide extremely good bass response. The last point cannot be overlooked because that is single largest caveat to FR speakers - bass.
I have easily driven them with everything from flea-powered 3-18wpc SET's, 10-40wpc PP tube amps, and solid state 20-255wpc amps.
Darkmoebius: I would not doubt that the Hammer Dynamics system works reasonably well, as i've used the same basic 12" Eminence driver in several different yet similar PA installations. I've made mention of this Eminence driver a few times when talking about full range drivers here on Agon, but nobody has ever asked for specifics on it.
I've got four of these Eminence drivers in my basement right now. They are in partially finished PA cabs that i'm building for a local band. I'm running two of the Eminence 12's per cabinet full range and bringing in an Eminence horn tweeter at 6 dB's / octave at 11 KHz. The shallow slope allows the tweeter and full range drivers to blend right at the point where the larger full ranges are starting to take a nose dive. It also negates the losses involved with a passive crossover on the full-range drivers, improving sensitivity.
We've run similar cab's as mains in small clubs and electronically crossed them with subs below them when more volume and bottom end is needed. They are versatile enough as designed, but the added wallop of the extra woofer area and electronically crossing the full-ranges really adds quite a bit of punch.
Thanks for the links to the "Super-12 mods", as i'm sure that i'll check that out very soon. Sean
Which Eminence driver are you talking about? Not that I have a project for it right around the corner, but if you like it that much then I want it in my bag of tricks.
Duke, for an inexpensive driver, the Eminence Beta 12LTA
offers pretty wide bandwidth and high sensitivity. Eminence has recently revamped their measuring techniques, so some of the spec's may be different than what is posted on PE's website. Lot of basic mods that can be done to improve performance without a lot of cost. Still want to check out the list of mods for the Hammer Dynamics that Darkmoebius listed above though, as maybe others have caught some things that i haven't.
Other than that, one can build a complex crossover with Zobel's to flatten the rising impedance, but i've never bothered. Running a pair of these nets you 99+ dB's @ 1 watt without ever dipping below 4 ohms anywhere in the band. Easy load, wide bandwidth and high efficiency for not that much money. Sean
Still want to check out the list of mods for the Hammer Dynamics that Darkmoebius listed above though, as maybe others have caught some things that i haven't
Oh no, tell me it ain't so!
"Maybe" somebody thought of something you didn't?
A little full of ourselves don't you think?
Glad to hear you put these great Emminence drivers to good use. They are a true miracle value when properly used.
I should point out that there are some significant construction differences between the commercially available 12LTx driver and (the late)John Wyckoff's custom made Emminence Super-12.
To quote JW from the Super-12 mods page I linked above:
John Wyckoff's description of the Super 12 (compared to the Eminence Beta-12LT)
Cone composition: Beta-12LT is conventional Kraft type. Super 12 is slightly heavier (different mix of fibers).
Voice coil: Super 12 has smaller gauge wire with a Nomex former. (I dropped the Kapton former after the first ten samples.) Beta-12LT uses Kapton former which is not quite as neutral in the mids. Super 12 coil is slightly lighter bringing moving mass to about the same. Super 12 uses one shorted voice coil turn to reduce inductance and improve high frequency response.
Motor: Super 12 has a soft-iron polepiece to improve BL. Beta-12LT has low carbon steel. Super 12 has shorting ring at the base of the polepiece and is capped with an aluminum shorting ring (also called Faraday ring).
Spider and suspension: Super 12 spider is woven Kapton fiber and is slightly softer. The suspension on the Super 12 is doped to be slightly stiffer.
Glue: Super 12 uses a lower-mass, harder formulation, and less of it. Improves high frequency response.
As to how big a sonic difference that all makes, i have no idea. I've never heard the regular Beta 12LT.
Other than that, one can build a complex crossover with Zobel's to flatten the rising impedance, but i've never bothered.
The Super-12's use a very simple series 12uf cap + 7 ohm resister [url=]Zobel network[/url](x-over diagram) on the 12".
One of the big changes was switching from the stock Audax tweeter to the more sensitive horn Fostex FT-17.
>>A little full of ourselves don't you think?<<
Far better that than what you're full of.
Elvis: I've just been watching the audio detectives and learning from them, their discoveries and their mistakes.
Most everything that i've ever learned and / or shared here ( or in other audio forums ) is an accumulation of information that i learned from others that i've put together over the years. As such, i could have overlooked some mods as my detective skills are lacking. That is, i might have missed some other pertinent info that others have found to be both important and useful. I am not omnipotent and can't read / see / do / be everything everywhere at one time.
Obviously, I don't know anything that someone else hasn't already discovered ten times over. That's why i try to take the time to share what i do know, so that others can learn just as i did. While i might think that i've discovered something new, because it is "new" to my level of understanding, further research almost always confirms that many others have already been down that path many times over.
As such, i am proud of what i know. Having said that, i'll not take credit for something that i didn't do. NOTHING that i've ever shared here isn't already common knowledge to those that deeply care about such things.
Darkmoebius: I knew that the Hammer driver is a custom build , but i also knew that it was based on the stock Beta 12LTA. I didn't know the exact differences between the drivers though, so thanks for sharing that info. My brother was looking into these drivers for use with a low powered tube amp when i had to remind him that i've been using these for a couple of years now.
As far as the Zobel goes, i think that the resistor is a bit low in value, but i'm sure that it is better than nothing as far as "hi-fi" linearity goes. I'm using these for live sound reinforcement, where ANY form of increase in sensitivity is considered a good thing. Even if it is slightly less linear, there's always a rack full of effects and EQ to deal with problems like that : )
As you mentioned here, i'm also using a very sensitive horn tweeter. It is quite a bit hotter in output than the paralleled Beta's, but as mentioned, i'm crossing it quite high and there are always EQ's available. Having the higher output from the driver simply means less power draw from the amp. This not only reduces thermal strain on the amp, but also the driver itself. Sean
As you mentioned here, i'm also using a very sensitive horn tweeter. It is quite a bit hotter in output than the paralleled Beta's, but as mentioned, i'm crossing it quite high and there are always EQ's available.
Yeah, we're padding the FT-17H down a little to better match with the Super-12's output. But, it is a much better match padded than the original Audax was with it's lower output. More seamless integration and extension. Surprising, because I am very sensitive to high frequencies and had always preferred soft doem tweeters.
Check out: commonsenseaudio.com -- you can learn a lot there about single driver speakers. They also sell them, but their site is pretty informative.
This Monacor SP-30PATC
speaker may be of interest to some folks out there. Looks pretty similar to the aforementioned Eminence Beta 12LTA, but with higher sensitivity and slightly flatter response. Don't know how they work in the real world, but according to spec's, it doesn't look bad. Sean
Thanks for all your responses, I have since purchased a pair of Omega Super 3R Alnico's on Audiogon, these are probably the best speakers I have ever owned, and I have owned about 30 in the last 20years from the major brands both Planar and Dynamic.
Darn Bill..you mean to tell me you didn't have to buy a pair of speakers the cost of a new Camry to be happy? I find that absolutely positively insane!! LOL
Just kidding..glad you found something you like..I use the big brother Alnicos of your single drivers..I feel the same way.
I have a question about building something like the Hammer Dynamics speakers, first, does the $650 include cabinets?
Also, I am mechanically spastic and illiterate but can follow simple instructions, is it very difficult to build these?
Thanks to Dark Moebius
1) YOU build the cabinets (or the friendly carpenter, or friendly diyer in the neihbourhood)
2) No it's easy to build them. You can even get the wood cut according to plans and just do the assembly (and gluing, etc). That's recommended route for first projects.
I've heard the Hammer Dynamics and I've heard my HempAcoustics speakers and I can tell you I favor my speakers. They are also a much easier build. You purchase the drivers from HempAcoustics and purchase the pre-built cabinet from Madisound. You would need to have someone cut the hole for mounting the driver, port and binding post cup and install them. Connect the internal speaker wires from binding post cup to drivers. That's it. Very easy project.
Take a look here:
Very simple build and the sonic results are fantastic. Since I use mine in a nearfield setup, I put them up on the high-mass stands from partsexpress in order to get the driver at ear height.
Check out the Hornshoppe Horns. Ed is a great guy to deal with and he got me to take the leap. I've never looked back. Check out his 'why' section at his site: thehornshoppe.com.
Thanks, I would love to build the Hempcones, but I have n also noone to cut the cabinets, I quess the best way is to purchase them from Omega for example, but I cn't afford the high cost right now. It seems interesting though, and thanks
for the answers, the horn shoppe sound good and is more reasonable, but don't offer Hemp drivers yet I think.
I thought would get my two cents in. I have a pair of Omega Grande 6 have been driving them with all kinds of tube amps. I currently have them hooked up to a little pair of Dared vp 20 monoblocks. At around 15-20 watts, these make them sound the best yet. I also have a Titanic 10 inch sub and they integrate well with it. But the tweak that really put the life in the system is when I put the omegas on a pair of mapleshade speaker blocks. What a great tweak. They just opened up in soundstaging and tone.
I placed the isolation footers from UltraFi under my HempAcoustics speakers and they made a tremendous difference. Imaging really snapped into focus and the minor boominess in the bass disappeared. Here's a link for anyone interested in trying a relatively inexpensive tweak that actually does something:
The thread's to this subject have made very enjoyable reading and its also nice to read about 'grass roots' stuff.