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Can Mac/PC compete with High End CDT??

Dear All,

I want to believe (do you?) that the Mac or PC approach can work, at least be good enough. Being that my prime source is analog digital music is secondary but at the same time compulsory for recent and actual recordings.

Reading reviews and opinions floating around online I was curious to hear for myself in a high end system, a sort of A/B singular test was needed; away from commercial pressures and inexperienced ears.

Full of great expectation I head to a fellow audiophile's den, both of us motivated to get to the bottom of this question ourselves.

So we got ourselves organized and ended up with a promising menu: Esoteric P0, Weiss Dac 2 D/A converter, Mac with Amara/iTunes then Kondo Dac with the Esoteric P0 and then Weiss Dac 2 D/A converter using fire wire interface from Mac/Amara/itunes via the Kondo DAC.

All the “virtual music” was obviously uncompressed format.

Preamp Absolare, amp New Audio Frontiers Ref 845 and Acapella Triolon Excalibur and some very good cables.

Being used to the sound of Kondo electronics and Goto horns that furnish my listening room, fed by micro seiki SX8000, CEC TL0x Cd transport at 1st I must say that I was disappointed with the sound that the P0 was delivering via the Weiss Dac.

I will not be long-winded here: this was not good. The sound seemed broken, out of pace, lousy trebles, one-dimensional bass and very nasal voices.

The resolution of the electronics and speakers told the cruel truth in this 70m² dedicated listening room. No fine-tuning I have ever encountered could solve this even with the widest stretch of imagination.

So the Mac/Amara/iTunes? Okay no gain no pain! Here it was no pain all gain, I mean, it sounded the same including the flaws but with the added advantage of mac based music selection as opposed to cd loading. This seemed promising, made me jump to the conclusion that the culprit was the Weiss DAC, not the fire wire interface.

So in goes the Kondo DAC driven by the P0, okay! I will lack vocabulary here it is truly amazing. My host and I within the 1st seconds looked at each other, not even in the listening seats, we agreed with each other without saying a word! Then we let the CDs play on, simple as that!

We kind of played around here knowing deep down that the next step was the “juge de paix” (for those who don’t master French that is “peace judgment”).

So we wired the Weiss Firewire/spdif interface to the Kondo Dac using the Mac/Almara/iTunes.

As it stands I had spoken to Daniel Weiss (owner/designer of Weiss Audio) a few days before and he explained to me that CD transport and Mac/PC was fundamentally the same thing; delivering 0 and 1 and the interface was just passing those 0s and 1s to the DAC.

So? I may have to repeat myself here : The sound seemed broken, out of pace, lousy trebles, one dimensional bass and very nasal voices.

The Kondo DAC was telling us all about the sources. I walk way from this with knowing that Mac/PC is not ready to replace a CD transport in high end system dedicated to experiencing music and all the emotional treasures that it has in store for us to enjoy.

So what does this mean? I think that in certain preamp/amp speaker combinations the hard disk be it mac or PC may work and certain reviewers will confirm this. However, if that system resolution comes to change, that its goes up the ladder, then the flaws in this approach will become apparent.

It would be advisable to ascertain your future with music and the associated audio equipment before marching towards the immaterial virtual music world.

Well a good friend of mine who hides in the shadows of the Bavarian landscape warned that no hard disk system could compete with the better CD transports, he is perfectly correct!

Tim
soundlistening

Showing 2 responses by blindjim

blindjim
3,092 posts
 

Given your short lived exp with trial and error, CDP vs HDD/DAC and the whatever interface, I would amend your friends statement somewhat…

Better said, “…. I would agree, so far.”

Blanket statements such as this or that setup blows away this or that setup could very well be accurate, subjectively or imperically, yet it/they do not cover all the setups available.

This could be a matter of simple settings being amiss with the software, or the file type & formats… and not the error or fault of the setup. IOW, ‘operator malfunction’ and even an overlooked configuration issue…. Or and I don’t mean this in a derogatory manner, but it could be user bias too.

My audio world is quite myopic, but my experiences with HDD vs CDP as sources has grown at some length over these past years and there are numerous factors which will surely affect playback and hence, sound quality using PC or Macs as source units.

Just ‘cause everything being used is ‘spensive, don’t mean it was setup exactly right or truly optimized. Sounds to me as though it was not. Or it’s software installation is in error… as both ways used the same DAC, right?

If so it’s obvious the personal confuser has something amiss. Somewhere. Somehow.

At very least though and once again, your shoot out isn’t THE final word, as you’ve so indicated…. It’s merely YOUR final word given what you have on hand with which to experiment…. ‘so far’.

Of course if this exchange is all you will do for investigative purposes for PC vs CDP performance ratios, and you’re satisfied, then it’s all good for you, and that’s great!

It does come off demonstrative and short sighted to remark that A vs. B gave you the impetus to discount ALL other such variations and thus their own challenges. To your findings. There’s a bunch more ‘B’ setups out there you haven’t heard yet, I’d bet. I’d not go all in on one vs another, just yet.

I’d like very much to get about my area and interchange components with other like minded sorts but so far I’ve not found too very many quite as forthcoming as myself nor as open to this interaction either… despite the potentially enormous mutual benefit the end result would be. Consequently I’ve my own perception and ears with which to ascertain gains & losses. Better and best.

Thanks for the comparisons of those two particular agendas though. Please, don’t stop there though, if using pc or Mac as source remains alluring to you.
blindjim
3,092 posts
 

Optimizing the computer in use for this exercise is very important, and it will provide an audibly distinct improvement..

Meaning background services that aren't critical need to be shut down. these services are listed online at various 'pc geek' sites. A goodly number of them can be shut down by simply reading the description of each and making a prudent decision

Or by the one at a time method, so you'll know if it needs to be turned back on real soon, and which one.

When in doubt you can Google the service name and find out if it’s vital or not for media services/playback.

I switched my M Audio 24/192 card into a newer XP Pro Desktop which I have yet to fully optimize. I found also a newer itteration of the software for this device at the MA web site. I installed that newer app and was not happy with the results. Did a bunch of checking online, and with the system services on board the new pc, and ultimately reverted to the previous version of the software.

Big improvement!

Why?

It’s the FM circuit. Huh? Yep… the “Freakin’ Magic” ckt. Beats me, but it’s better now and as yet, again, not fully optimized. In fact I had to install and uninstall it a couple times before it settled in and acted at it’s best.

Pits or bad sectors on the hard drive? Could be. It’s moot now however.

So some greater attention to setting up the server/PC/Mac does improve things, or such are my experiences.

I need to say here as well that the new pc is not sounding as good so far as the older one yet. Optimization? Maybe. Not run in fully? Perhaps. Stand & isolation? Could well be as those were changed too.

So all in all, I’ll say be persistent and eek out the best level of performance which is available to you from front to back, just as you would with your standard audio system. They have much in common in terms of setup techniques.

My pc HDD music system is Ethernet direct… not wireless.
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