Thank you all for your considered responses. A few points to address: (1) Polarity of speaker leads rigourously maintained...checked and double-checked to be sure; (2) Speakers each back into a wall, and positioned ca. 12-18in. away; (3) Actually tried affecting bass response by dusting off a retired Carver C1 preamp with tone controls, and with bass fully engaged, a discernible gain in oomph noted...however, using same setting with aforementioned a/d/s towers, the pressure waves would crack drywall!; (4) Original query concerned music playback mainly...I have a sub which I utilise for DVDs/film streaming to capture LFE, but found it too boomy for music listening.
So, "sounds" like I'm bass-limited if I want to stick with the CM-4s, though they do offer superb resolution and articulation compared to the 1090s. But, being an empiricist at heart, and with a relatively low-cost outlay (raw cable, bare-wire termination), I can order up lengths of speaker cable of varying properties, and just run simple listening tests to see if any improvement in bass response can be achieved; however, I do share the opinion of "stereo5" that cables can't provide what speakers apparently lack, full stop.
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"auxinput"...I certainly understand the limitations to bass response conferred upon the speakers due to design specs, however I purchased the CM-4s new many years ago based not only upon reviews but actually listening to them in the dealer showroom. Really not sure why what was perceived by reviewers and myself re: more than adequate bass and what I'm experiencing currently. But do take your point re: 10 AWG (or bigger) cable to supply the woofers. Thank you for suggested cables to check out.
One lives in hope.
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A brief point to note: for many years I had a classic Yamaha M-85 brute to service the speakers, and FWIW always thought the CM-4s delivered passable bass...unfortunately the amp went Chernobyl on me a few years ago, hence the Adcom. |
auxinput...so, how about just using No. 10/2 Romex cable...single Cu conductor, solid, unstranded? I have about 50ft left over from running 240V service for a wall heater...always curious how simple electrical wire would work in home stereo setup. Also, there is a stranded version as well - THHN #10, 19-strand pure Cu...cheap enough at Home Depot...not being sarky, a legitimate query.
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Re: Cerious Tech Graphene Extreme cables...there is a terminated pair being sold on AudioGon for $450/8ft. Seems a reasonable price, but would love to try something as exotic as these on a money-back trial basis if little or nothing is gained in speaker performance. |
Re: smaller gauge...there has been a huge boom in Duelund 16awg tinned CU speaker wire recently, sort of a knock-off of old Western Electric 16awg electrical wire (cloth-covered), which is still coveted and resold at remarkably elevated prices. Also available at a fraction of the Duelund cost is Belden 9497, seemingly same specs - 16awg, individual strands tinned, but manufactured as a twisted duplex, available for example on Ebay @ $0.99/foot. I plan on buying enough for double-runs to each speaker as part of on-the-cheap speaker cable evaluation. Anyone have any experience with any of the above?
Cheers. |
Well, very spirited discussion indeed! To settle a couple of points raised: my existing Adcom back-end can very successfully drive the a/d/s L1090 towers...unfortunately the original data sheet on the speakers was lost in a move, so I can't determine speaker efficiency vis-vis the B&W CM-4s, which are rated at 90dB/W/m, but I would presume the former to be a bit more efficient than the latter. I'm still going to carry on evaluating some raw speaker wire, but definitely coming round to the view that the CM-4 constitutively lack strong bass presence, and perhaps best to work in the sub in a more blended fashion to support music playback of all genres. |
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Strictly OT, but FWIW...“cleeds”...back in the day CCA was in fact the “go-to” residential conductor wire...however, because of well-documented hazards with this wire (mainly due to its adverse expansion- contraction properties under normal electrical demand loads) this wire was banned for residential construction years ago, and is only found in legacy buildings. Whenever one is looking at an old building with “sound bones“, take a screwdriver and pocket-knife with you and unscrew any switch or outlet cover plate then scrape gently at the “neutral” wire...if it’s “shiny” metallic and not obviously copper, walk away!
Cheers. |
Whoa, it’s a fair cop, totally wrong about Al residential wiring re:NEC...just retailing anecdotal hearsay when our then 50s-vintage house was getting totally rewired in late 70s....however, Al cable from mid-60s-early 70s was really not reliable for long-term use in residential construction, and building inspectors were obliged to report use of when homes changed ownership. Insurers demanded this, and would in many cases refuse policies unless homeowners made necessary upgrades. From what I now understand there is now an Al alloy in use much superior to early wiring, but given price of Cu cable today, find me a developer who would order his subs to use Al-based wiring.
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re:jafant...You’ve clocked it, mate, the CM-4s don’t come close to the 800 series...but neither does the price...it is what it is. |
Cable evaluation suspended until I can have one of the high-bass/midrange cones refoamed! Existing surround lost its elasticity and in fact cracked in several places after gentle probing with finger...don't think I ever removed cloth driver covers until a couple of days ago when my daughter heard "crackling" in left h-b/midrange cone...totally shocked to see condition of the surround. |
mtrot: initially I ws convinced that all four woofer/midrange cones had “bad” surrounds, but closer examination seems to implicate only the one midrange surround, which just completely disintegrated with trying to remove from cone. Hope I in fact won’t need new driver.
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There’s an outfit called KnuKonceptz that sell a Kimber VS-series knockoff called “Krux cable”: 2x8 18awg braided conductors @ 8awg +/- and selling as raw cable for $5.49/ft. A 12awg braided version per Kimble 4-VS also available @ $3.25/ft. |
Also, an Ebay seller called Maze Audio sells paired “litz” speaker cable (poss. 9awg equivalent, not specified in ad), 9ft., terminated, for $240.
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Per thread in "Speakers, new surrounds have given new life to the CM-4s, excellent bass/hi-bass/midrange, and speakers up and running. Using some rilly old Monster cables temporarily, have ordered from Douglas Connections Furez 4x12awg pure Cu wire, and some 2x12awg for messing about with some biwire combos, and some fairly inexpensive 10awg Western Electric cloth-encased Sn-coated Cu wire, "gen-u-wine" WE kit, so the seller says. For round ca. $100, cheap enough for some diverse experimental approaches to amp-speaker hookups. Not expecting much, but the Monsters have to go...old and getting frayed. |
