cable doubter no more


i was once one that thought high end cables were just a waste of money. i upgraded my system and purchased all ps audio cables. these were replacing signal cables, i heard a clear improvment. i was satisfied, and believed my currant componenets were as good as it would get with them. i then went to the R.M.A.F. and lusted after all the great sounding gear. but my ears were bigger than my wallet. but after finding some good deals on some dh labs revelations, and a set of analysis plus blackovals, my system has been transformed. im talking a good 20% by 2 sets of interconnects and a set of speaker cables. im blown away by the improvement. to all you cable doubters out there sorry YOU ARE WRONG !! just wanted to get that out there , thanks for reading.
jrw40
There's no doubt in my mind that no two IC designs sound the same.

Which are better than others though and which are worth the money? That's the tricky (and potentially expensive) part.
agreed, im just very happy with the improvement, and im really probably in the same price range, if one were to pay full retail. one thing that they did other than sound so much more clear and open , is that they seem to put the instruments in there proper place, how thats even possible. just a complete makeover.
There is nothing more tiresome than those who have recently been reunited with their religion, those that have recently renounced the evils of alcohol, cigarettes, drugs or sexual addictions, or those that have found cables to make a 20% improvement in the sound of their audio systems.
Thanks for posting your comments.

Not too many years ago people that believed in the merit of high end cables were dismissed as crazy. I've been into high end cables for more than 25 years and got a lot of grief in the beginning.

No doubt my wife still thinks I'm crazy, but high end cable performance is entering the realm of general audiophile acceptance now that people are experimenting, as you have.
Viridian, so tiresome you found the time to waste on a post like that. i must have made the whole thing up just to keep you coming up with lame statements like that.
I'm still excited from my S/C enlightening experience!!!! Ohmmmmmm.
SO tiresome: Hearing from all the deaf doubters out there!! Then again- Look how big Stereo Re-phew's(GAG) subscription list was. Oh well- Freedom of Speech(and, in some cases: Ignorance), made America what it is.
Its just human nature to post that way and more of said human nature to reply that way and the reply to the reply.YOU ARE WRONG is a first grade emotion and pretty much dooms the post to a level of that which is in all of us from 5 to 85.Crayons,chalk,new friends,recess,wonderful smells,alliances,betrayals.As basic and predictable as the first Pong game.The Red Green ending then and adieu,cheers,Bob
You said "i upgraded my system"; were the new cables the ONLY change, or was there new component(s) involved too?

And I have to agree with Usblues. Making the 'YOU ARE WRONG' statement comes across as arrogant, as the change you heard may be specific to your system, ears and listening room, and those cables may just as easily degrade the sound of someone else's setup.

That said, I do believe cables make a difference (from personal experience), but maybe avoid the sweeping statements :)
ok, "you are wrong" was not intended as an attack, as much as a seeing the light kind of thing with cables in mind.and 20% might be a bit of a stretch, but it did increase the sound quality a good bit,that i would consider an upgrade. but since the life has been sucked out of any real conversation about cables.ill just get back to listening to music. latter
I think that Analysis Plus is one of the better values in cables and ICs. I'm using Solo Crystal Ovals with great pleasure. I also plan to buy a few of their power cords, which stood up well at RMAF when compared to some hyper-expensive PCs.

Dave
A case can be made that if each of us could keep swapping out cables in our high end systems and repeat this process until we found the optimum sound from our gear, then cables could transform the performance in many of our setups. The problem is it's cost prohibitive. Even if you could keep borrowing through the Cable Company and had the time to keep the cables long enough for them to fully settle in, the cost of many cables is too high to begin with. You can buy used and still pay too much in some cases. So, due diligence with the value to performance cable designers is the only option for many audiophiles. Many have trials. Wouldn't it be fun to have 5 sets of IC's and SC's from different great cable makers and be given six months to try them to hear which ones would make your system sing? ;then be able to buy the best of the lot for your system at an affordable price? That would be the ultimate. I feel, we never truly know the many ways our gear and speakers can sound given the many cables available to connect it all together.
ok, "you are wrong" was not intended as an attack, as much as a seeing the light kind of thing with cables

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Another saved.

I see the light too! However, my philosophy is somewhat different: any piece/group of equipment that improves by 20% with change of wires (no filters - some cables are actually filters which would be different) is either badly designed or something is already incompatible/broken in my book. So for sure a cable can make such a huge 20% difference but this simple fact points to another problem somewhere else. (remember an IC or cable is just wires).

So in my religion audio equipment should work well with any appropriate interconnects and cables and if it doesn't then I get worried about the short comings of the components or their fundamental compatibility with eachother.
Wiring is a tweak like tone controls and power cords.

To my ears, they can and often do change the sound, but in of themselves won't make a bad system sound good and most decent wires probably will not make a good system sound really bad either.

Like so many other things in audio, its a matter of personal taste and overall system synergy. Wires can be an effective and relatively cost effective way to tweak a system.

I wouldn't go any further in bestowing value on wires than that.

What version of Blackovals are you referring to - the 9 or 12; and are you running a single pair or bi-wired pair?
Additionally, in terms of your perceived "+20 percent improvement," do you find that one of the cables, IC or speaker cable, provides greater sonic improvements over the other, or is it clearly the combination of the two cables?

Thank you.

11-10-08: Mapman
Wiring is a tweak like tone controls and power cords.

To my ears, they can and often do change the sound, but in of themselves won't make a bad system sound good and most decent wires probably will not make a good system sound really bad either.

Like so many other things in audio, its a matter of personal taste and overall system synergy. Wires can be an effective and relatively cost effective way to tweak a system.

I wouldn't go any further in bestowing value on wires than that.

So would you also say dedicated circuits, electrical receptacles, power conditioners, and isolation transformers are merely tone controls?

Not all cables color the sound.

Especially in the case of power cords.
.
im running the blackoval 9's single wire to sonus faber cremonas. i srarted with the ic's , then the speaker. i would say 50/50 on the level of improvement. the ic's giving more air and sparkle, then the 9's tightening things up giving it more focus and detail.
"So would you also say dedicated circuits, electrical receptacles, power conditioners, and isolation transformers are merely tone controls? "

No.

They are a different kind of "tweak" that addresses a completely different aspect of the resulting sound.
Cables threads are great.

So much is accomplished in each and every one.
Even when we agree that cables can change the sound it gets ugly in this forum...
I find that cables make a difference, although I'm not always convinced that "different" is the same as "better". I've never heard every cable in every possible combination of components with everybody else's ears. If somebody makes a change and likes it and feels it's an improvement, I'm happy for them. It may not work for me in my system with my ears, but that's fine, and also irrelevant to the person who likes the change in their system. I think the 20% improvement comment was just hyperbole. I also think the "You are worng " comment was not intended as an insult or childish retort. I take no offense from it. It's just the enthusiasm as a person who's changed their system to their satisfaction. Let's argue about something else other than that one person has become more enthusiastic about a part of the hobby. Lecture finished.
I think cables can (usually) be an inexpensive way to upgrade sound however they are also 'tone controls' (per JA Stereophile)as well which can be an upgrade in itself.
Cable threads are a hopeless proposition I suppose.

It's not hard to disprove an assertion though that all cables sound the same with some simple a/b tests on a decent system.

Beyond that, good luck!
I'm always amused by those that ascribe percentages to these things. Where do you guys buy those meters that tell you that an improvement is 18% or 20%?
Viridian

I'm always amused by your posts in this thread.

ET
Marty (Viridian),
I agree with 74% of what you say.

I wish it were more.
viridian, tiresome , amused, some deep thinking going on there. useless.
I'm 82% certain I hear a 15% improvement with my new power cords which cost
63% less than my previous power cords that I bought at a 50% discount.

More or less.
J, Congrats on discovering Analysis Plus! I felt sure that most members already knew that cables create the most distortion in our systems. Cables cannot add anything, the very best just do less damage.
What's to argue about? Jrw40 changed cables. He likes what they did to his system. He feels that they made a noticeable improvement. How can any of us feel negative about his opinion? Musical enjoyment is what it's all about. A major proportion of this hobby is subjective!
Jrw40 I'm still as excited as the last time I posted here! It seems we had components that were being constrained by our cables so the improvements were startling to us!!!! I know what I experienced, you know what you experienced, our reactions sound similar and no one can tell us what happened didn't!!!!
Zieman, of course, is an Analyis Plus dealer and to not disclose that is both unprofessional and unethical.

Again.
The pot speaks...kettle, watch out.
Your snide comment is irrelevant Dslop.

I didn't mention and/or endorse any line or product.

Nice try.
11-11-08: Dcstep
The pot speaks...kettle, watch out.
Bad analogy, IMO.

Audiofeil always discloses his dealer status when discussing products he sells.
Instead you denigrate another.
Were I a dealer endorsing products on threads here (I'm not) I would disclose that information up-front.

I suppose its not absolutely required, and individuals will make of it what they will, but it would seem to be the right thing to do nonetheless.
It seems that we have strayed from the thread. Some more intemperate gushing regarding the virtues of cables would be more appropriate. And please, lets all use all capital letters and percentages in our posts to validate our dissimilar positions.
Viridian,

Cables are very very nice.

My system could not work without them.

I've tried straightening out some coat hangers and using these to connect things but it just ain't the same.
I like this guy Mapman! Go get 'em! Again, I don't sell here, so I feel I can offer opinions like any other member. No C.V. required.
I don't sell here, so I feel I can offer opinions like any
other member. No C.V. required.
Zieman (Answers)

Your Audiogon member feedback shows 48 comments from buyers with whom
you transacted business.
>>I don't sell here, so I feel I can offer opinions like any other member.

So if one of the readers here called and inquired about one of the products mentioned in your comments, you would refuse to sell them?

Yeah Z-bag; we're buying that.

ROTFLMAO
I have two ads right now. No current product. I can't talk slow or type slow so all I can ask is that you read this again, s l o w; selling here is not my business model. Not at all interested in risking the past, current or future line card.
Not without continued help from you guys. Free advertising is one of my favorite kinds...
>>selling here is not my business model<<

Perhaps not your model but you are conducting business here. The 161 transactions are irrefutable.

When discussing products in your line, non-disclosure is unethical and unprofessional.

Or is that part and parcel to your business model?

I realize it's a long shot but some reader may believe what you post about products in your line.

I hope the typing was slow enough.
True enough.

You likely will continue not disclosing your dealer status as you guerilla market for customers, so any further discussion is moot.
Don't leave T! Please post my site at least once a day! It's already snowballing! Thanks! Fail, I have polled, and the concensus is, go 180 from Fail and all is well. Don't know what I would do without you guys!
11-12-08: Zieman
Don't leave T! Please post my site at least once a day! It's already snowballing! Thanks!
Once is enough. Chances of anyone finding the link in these threads are slim.

As for it snowballing...well...I'm doubtful, otherwise you wouldn't have the time to troll here.

But, keep up the marketing (even though your business model doesn't include selling here). Maybe someone will buy into it.
By the way, if I cut my ICs in half, I get a 100% reduction in sound.

Try this test only with power turned off though or use insulated wire cutters.

If I splice them back together ... well, you get the idea.
Great to hear Jrw40,

Have fun as that's what it is supposed to be.To bad this thread had to get silly by some.

Best,
Bob