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A good 24bit player or DAC is a big improvement over older technology. I am not as sure about things like SACD and DVD-A being here to stay. Three years also HDCD was the thing that was going to make orginary CD players obsolete; now it is almost forgotten because "ordinary" 24 bit players sound as good or better.
Worry about today not tomarrows technology. I dont think that either format will survive... The amount of audiophiles compared to the average listner who spent $800.00 on their whole system is so small. they are targeting a very small community of people who will spend $25.00 on a cd. I would never spend that. You must have a big collection of cds now? Well you need to play them on something right? again worry about today and get yourself a great player now and enjoy it. if you buy a good player on the used market and in one year you wnat to change you should only loose a couple bucks. Buy a Mark Levinson 39 and you will never need a better player than that. I own all levinson so I talk from exsperience. good luck
Check out this review of the BAT VK-D5SE on the "Enjoy the Music" website: enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0401/batvkd5se.htm
I wholeheartedly agree with Dick Olshers conclusions on this topic! The VK-D5SE is a stunning piece of digital gear, loaded with "yesterdays' technology", yet still capable of delivering true reference quality performance.
Lev 335,who spends 25.00 on sacd discs, certainly no one i know,and there are players for 400.00 list coming out in a few weeks,sacd is not going away,the 9000es dvd player 1100.00 street price was said to have better sonics while in sacd mode,than a wadia 860 in the april 01 widescreen reveiw.If your deaf and misinformed about sacd,then leave it to us that are neither to pass judgement.I have never paid more than 18.99 for any title.Ssomsit, why not try the accuphase sacd player and have the best of both worlds.SACD is today, for anyone with decent hearing.
Everyone is talking about this player sounds better than that player, etc..... Hogwash!!! If these miracle players are so good at everything how come during my research I keep coming accross threads about the latest and greatest mod's to make them sound about as good as a Levinson or any of the proven players on the market. Doesn't anyone see what's happining? The corporate suits are playing with us. They are pushing the computer marketing concept down our throats. The format war is there for a reason. To sell more machines. This one sounds better. NO! That one is better. This is the latest. No, wait! HERE COMES the latest. If you modify the output stage it can sound almost as good as a ........... Please remember what this hobby is about - the music. We as audiophiles enjoy music. If the corporate suits cared about the music they would give us a butt kicking SACD player only. No redbook CD, No DVD, just the best SACD ONLY!! I will find the best CD only. Just two channel. Do not force me to spend thousands more on speakers and wires. Let alone the proper room treatments. The format they wish for is multi - channel. Not me! Maybe vinyl is the way to go. Remember Redbook CD was the answer to the cassette tape. So I'm going to upgrade my simple system by improving the enviroment. My dealer is a friend as well as a dealer. He recommended I wait. I'm going to add the PS Audio P600 to clean and regulate the AC feeding my gear and I'm going to have my room analyzed for the proper placement of treatments. When the smoke clears and they produce what I am looking for not what they want me to have, I will take the plunge. Until then I will enjoy the music. We can keep the CD player and add the new SACD player or whatever clears the smoke. This is audio not the video game gotta have the playstation 2 OH, DARN 3.... WAIT 4 market. So please go and buy the best CD player for your ears and within your buget. Go enjoy the music now. Peace and good listening.
Psjulian, the reason your dealer told you to wait is he has no high end accuphase to sell you.The fact is dsd blows away any cd playback period, if your comparing same price range and brands, and hades will probably freeze over before levinson or any other ultra hi end company build a dvd-a player and if you were really interested in the slightest at knowing whats going on,you would already no this and not be asking a dealer.This is not a token add on like hdcd and dvd-a is flawed,and said to be so by the man who's responsible for it ,spent twenty years developing it,and has switched to dsd and says PCM is inherently flawed period.Add the watermarking in and its flawed even more so.So DVD-A, if it survives will be a multi channel cd sound forever for the average joe. Audiophools,on the other hand are and will be buying sacd,which by the way can,t even be played in multi channel as of yet,strictly two channel.So you see there is no waiting on the smoke to clear and if you cared to know this from owners of sacd and dvd-a or the audio press, you would already no the facts.This is the first new technology breakthrough in twenty years thats meaningful, and is a huge improvement over redbook and to compare it to a video game is utterly ridiculous. I run my player, which happens to have a dvd player built in through plinius and thiel gear,and the small percentage of owners who would mod there sacd players are doing it mainly for the cd side of things,not sacd.Yes its about the music, but the music just sounds more liquid and analog in sacd, no matter what player you use, compare it to a similar priced cd only player and you will hear more of what its all about,the music.Until then, you and your dealer are underinformed and you can always listen to sacd in two channel on any future disc,as i will at least until iv'e heard a realistic recording of rear placements of sound,which has not been done yet in my opionion.One thing you could do is listen to some sacd soon before trying to sway others to stick with cd and having very little if anything to back up your opinion.
ears, I have plenty to back my statement. AS I stated my dealer is my friend. He sells Accuphase as well as Levinson. The fact is the software. Most is re - mastered analog. It will take years for the recording industry to even get close to producing high quality two channel let alone multi - channel SACD or DVD - A. They are still fighting the format wars. I am a retired musician. I live in Michigan and my dealer friend is in N.Y. While touring I always looked up the High - End audio salons in the cities I was playing. This is a great way of meeting people with the same passion for music and a wonderful way of making life long friends. Most studios are just getting their act together on AC power regulating and paying attention to cable quality.SACD or whatever, is said to be as close to the master as possible. Be carefull about what you wish for. To truly appreciate the sound a good studio will spend several hundreds of thousands of dollars on accoustics. Will you? Redbook CD is mastered for the home audio and automobile enviroment. With carefull planing you can put together an outstanding home playback system with what is available today. My opinion is based on my dealing with the suits in the industry.SACD can play multi - track. That was displayed at CES 2000. The suits want this war to continue. Yes, this is exactly like the games. More in the corporate pockets with more gear to buy. I am going to be 48 years old in May. My beautiful wife and I just moved into a custom built home in Jan. She is behind me 100% on my audio hobby. The living room was dedicated the sound room in the planing stages. It containes my simple system of Levinson,B&W,etc., etc. My speakers were placed using the Cardas formula and tweaked accordingly. I received some professional advice on room treatments from my friends still in the business and good ol' redbook sings like my days of playing. This is what I base my advice on. So please do not attack someone you know nothing about. This hobby, music, has awarded me with wonderful friends. I was just passing on some thoughts to keep the fraternity going. I was not being negative about SACD, just cautious. Thanks to my beautiful wife and her investmant philosophy we are financially set. Are you? Why are all SACD owners so defensive. Long live music. Peace and good listening to all.Even you EARS.
upgrade your *preamp* if ya wanna improve the sound of digital software. i did so, & suddenly, my cheapie $500-retail nad 515 cd-changer is sonically comparable w/the highly-acclaimed $3k retail resolution-audio players. no meaningful differences, when run thru a melos music-director preamp. i was all-set to upgrade my cd-player after upgrading my preamp, but now, it's not worth it.
so, get a killer preamp & upgrade *all* yer system's sources, making redbook cd's paletable, while waiting-out the *suits*, as psjulian mentions. then, when ya *do* upgrade yer digital hardware, yule be able to plug it in to a top-notch preamp.
one person's opinion, doug s.
Psjulian,Sorry you take the post as an attack ,but i won,t apoligise for it as you still provide no backup, just a bunch of i heard this and that for your reason on why the original poster should not buy into sacd.I will have to set a few things strait for you 1 There are no multi channel sacd players available,only software for consumers to buy.2 Your opinion on sacd vs cd as a musician might be a good one,if you actually had sacd to compare and did not go with what some dealer said.3 sacd is two years old,and can hardly be considered new technology.4 There are pure dsd recordings and even the 200 year old dead guys sound better on sacd than any redbook, and you will not find a soul to disagree,who has actually compared the two.5 As a buiseness owner i can tell you that the suits don,t know squat about half the stuff they sell.6 I can walk into at least half of the hi end dealers in the world,and tell them more about sacd than they care to know and it will all be based on facts,not well because my freind told me or some suit told me.As far as your little pissing contest about a new house,i am on my third custom home,also in michigan and at a much younger age than you,and i could buy the accuphase sacd tommorow for cash, but this is an audio board,not a pissing contest.Sacd, does not require any special room or studio to get a lot closer to the master than redbook,just put it in place of your current setup and add your tatse in music and presto ,instant better sonics to enjoy the music with,This advice is free and fact,and this includes even you Psjulian.
ears, i've heard sacd, & i agree w/ewe about its sonic improvements over cd - it's almost analogue-like! ;~) however, there's not enuff software presently awailable for me to entertain taking the plunge into the hardware. (mebbe if i was on to my 3rd custom home, i mite tink differently, tho!) i'm perfectly happy w/my winyl, & my cd-collection is quite small, so i'm ok w/this, too. i dint get into cd 'til only a few years ago, due to its sonic shortcomings, and i felt little hardship - i'm sure i can comfortably get by w/o a sacd player until it turns out (if it does) to be the next dominant digital medium.
regards, doug s.
Good for you Doug S. As far as ears is concerned since we both live in Michigan why don't we get together and discuss our opinions face to face. This was not meant to be a pissing contest. The one fact you missed, is, what Doug S. mentioned, the software. Other labels are waiting for the smoke to clear. Trust me the suits are having a ball. High - end audio is a small market. They needed to do this to generate sales. Home Theater is not enough for their greed. My debate is not that SACD is not a better medium. It's what the big boys are doing to us. My advice is the same as most writers in TAS and some in the other publications both print and the net. If you need a killer CD player get it now and enjoy your current music collectin NOW!!!! If the new format flies the market will be ripe for the other players to produce their machines. This is better for us. If we jump on board blindly then they have us right where they want us.If we make them earn our support then we win. Thats my point!! Look at Xmas and what Sony did with the games. The average consumer went nuts. I pray we in this hobby are wiser than that. Peace and good listening.
I DON'T GET IT!
The sides are;
1)SACD machines sound better than any or most cd players in "redbook cd" playback
2)SACD sounds great but there are better "redbook cd" players
3) there is still a small group that don't want to know the answer until it's announced at the next Lakers game.
What the heck is this argument even about?
Linn came out with a $20,000 single box player, and Burmester's has it's $33,000 processor and their $27,000 transport, and hey let's add a $7000 d to d converter, and now let's compare this system to a $2000 SACD player. O.K. that was unfair, just stay with the $16,950 Levinson processor and a $9495 transport and compare.
What is the purpose of this argument. Just for fun, I'll say anything over the benchmark $26,500 Levinson without up-sampling will beat SACD redbook playback, even though this is being challenged.
I still ask, what is the argument? Let's see, $2000 vs $25,000 for the same redbook cd playback, forget the SACD bonus so we can stay out of the nothing is available discussion.
Why don't Levinson, Burmester, Linn and the rest just get trashed on this site? We'll argue $500 vs $1500 power cords and interconnects and call the manufacturers every name for stealing from us. The SACD player comes along at 5% of the cost of the reference systems and arguably beats out most of them, and we question the "suits"?
Am I missing something or is there such a fear of progress that we'll come up with any argument just to keep the status-quo?
Please help me here, is it me, or is it you? J.D.
The Marantz SA-1 SACD/CD player is worth every penny. It plays regular (redbook) CDs better than my currnet $10K Wadia setup. And the SACD format, well.....I am speechless. My Goldmund TT analog setup has competition now.
No I don not work for Marantz, or a dealer that sells Marantz. I just like to pass on what I learn
from experience to my audiophile friends.
hi jd - *my* only point is, that a retail $500 cd-player, when run thru a top-line preamp, sounds as good as the best cd-players out there - up to $3k, anyways. i'm not gonna (can't?) spend any more than that - even used - to buy a digital format, unless it crushes my present playback set-up & has a ton-o-software awailable. when those $2k sacd players can be had used for $1k, & significantly improve upon the sound of redbook cd over my current set-up, then i mite reconsider.
regards, doug s.
ps - forget the *sony* snob-stuff - it can say *yorx*, for all i care, if it sounds good, software's awailable, & i can afford it! :>)
I agree Doug, the pre-amp and for that matter speakers and amp are going to impact the system. My system was at a point that source was my weakest link. Now my pre-amp is the weakest. I plan on bi-amping with a second amp this winter, making my pre even more the weakness. Now if I could just get Mega to sell me his pre real cheap I'd be set. Your point is reight on, all the parts make the whole. J.D.
Sony, it took me alot to get over it too, but I did. A closed mind is a horrible thing to waste!
Yes,sony snobbrery is a lot of whats going on with,the wait and see camp,but it is sacd[dsd] that i am defending not sony.Doug your reason for not buying into sacd is a very good one,but i have been waiting a long time for something that could be compared to analog,without the tracing distorsion,and better bass ect and have seen to many people who have not heard sacd tell others to wait.From now on i will just tell them to go to the hi rez board at the audioasylum or one of the rags that has compared sacd to cd,dvd-a and analog.If people enjoy cd playback from a 69.00 player i could care less,and would not say a thing,but to people with the wait and see attitude, and there are many on this board,give advice about something they have not heard,and compare it to the latest video game craze i get urked,enough already,were my exact thoughts on this.Do audiophools think accuphase would come out with a sacd/cd player if it were not superior to cd? my biggest problem with cd is,the higher resolution my gear got,the less material i could stand to listen to and my cd collection has become almost as limited as the available sacd titles that i have or will purchase.Most of the music i listen to is classic rock or blues,a lot of which was recorded decades ago,and the best cd player in the world will not make up for the recording quality of a lot of these,but the ones i bought on sacd sound good to spectacular through hi rez gear,and when it comes down to it ,this is why i am such an avid sacd fan,as its only about the music if you can stand to listen to it in the first place.