Thank you Rebbi for sharing with us. You've done an excellent job, not just building the amp but communicating the experience. Keep us abreast of your impressions. |
I certainly agree almost 100% with you Grannyring except for one thing, I didn't read anything that Rebbi was unsatisfied with the Decapo/AN amp, are you Rebbi? He has indicated in the past that his preference for music is small scale which could be most satisfying with that in mind. I would agree with you fully if his tastes leads to large scale dynamic music over time that he would have to decide on whether or not to keep the speakers and find another amp or keep the amp and find far more efficient speakers. I'm also in agreement that it is most difficult finding a speaker that is satisfying, particularly at a given price point and in my NOT dedicated listening room, at least it has proven true for myself. It seems Rebbi was VERY deliberate in his choice and listened carefully before going ahead with the AN. The real benefit, regardless of the outcome, is the experience of the process, really commendable. |
I wasn't aware of the thread where he stated the amp clips on certain music but I'm not at all suprised. I would have been quite surprised if this wasn't the case. 8 watts is just not enough power for those speakers on dynamic full range music regardless of what any of the manufacturers may have inferred to him at the outset. |
Agree Mapman, this could be a solution if Rebbi is committed to the Decapos. BUT that is a completely different road and matching a subwoofer to a given speaker in a seamless manner in a given room is a tricky task, at least IME. Over the years I have heard very few systems that pull this off successfully, at least to my satisfaction which is why I avoid them. The last guy that recommended that I try it had MAJOR issues with his full range speakers in a large room which included dual subwoofers which were all too obvious to me if not him. |
I agree with Charles, Mikirob and Al. You can only put yourself in Rebbi's shoes, the investment of time and love he put into the build and the fact he loves the sound of the amp. In addition it is probably the path of least resistance to sell the Decapo which won't be difficult and find a much more efficient speaker. In this way he will be out of pocket much less if anything. The 60 day trial period for the Tekton Lores may be a good place to start.
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"The issue is the contraction and constriction of dynamics that come way before clipping."
I couldn't agree with this more and it has been my consistent impression in vast majority if not all systems using SET amplifiers. I've heard exactly two that overcame these limitations and they were both large horn systems. The real issue as best I can tell is that in most cases they are used with speakers that are WAY lacking sufficient efficiency to overcome these limitations. The bottom line is that this fact is overlooked by those that love the magic that they provide in the midrange. So in the end it is a question of what you can live with or what you can't live without. I still believe that in this case Rebbi should explore the options with the amp based on his committment and investment. |
A very descriptive and well thought out comparison of the two speakers Brownsfan. Rebbi I would really see if you could listen first, particularly with your budget considerations and limited options with the Triumphs. It might be worth a plane ticket to Brownsfans place to hear firsthand to be certain :^) Good luck! |
"No home trials are available due to their pricing structure. He added that in 20 years of doing business this way they've never had a case of buyer's remorse."
No offense to you believing that Rebbi but if I had a dollar for everytime I've heard a variation of that line over the years, I could own them with the dollars! If this is truly the case, why not offer an in home trial even charging a restocking fee with the knowledge of the manufacturer that he won't get a return, it's never happened in 20 years. I don't want to come across as a cynic but really, 3K direct for a stand mounted monitor speaker is not chump change regardless of the seemingly steal of a bargain for the Dynamo integrated. In any case, I totally agree to live with what you have until you can sort this out throughly, ideally with your amp or an SET with the speakers under consideration. At least with Mikirobs' suggestion you get 60 days to listen first and they don't cost 3K. Advice is in plenty of supply but you have certainly demonstrated being shrewd and deliberate thus far. I'm sure you'll make the right move going forward. It will be interesting to us all watching how this plays out. |
"Again, can't wait to hear the amp at full operating strength!"
I am most interested as well Rebbi. If it is tube issue or something else with the amp that could be remedied that would allow you to keep the Decapos and find musical bliss with all music. What an ideal outcome that would be! |
"Here's what I find remarkable about this situation. A decfective(below specified power rating) amp driving 86-87 db speakers sounding better than the former higher powered amplifier with the same speaker. When this amplifier is fixed, look out!"
Charles, your statement above is the crux of this seeming paradox. I am TRULY hopeful that Digital Pete gets down to the bottom of this perplexing issue and that in the end the Decapo and Audio Note work together, maybe not perfectly, what does....but then again to a point that really doesn't matter if there is magic to Rebbi. We're all rooting for him and hoping all works out with what he has on hand without the need to change speakers which at this point seems the next logical step. |
I'm very happy for you Rebbi that you have finally resolved the problem. We are ALL still on pins and needles, hoping that the amp will work with the Decapos but the fact that you did everything on your part correctly must give you some relief and satisfaction that it at least wasn't you which I'm sure was somewhere in the back of your mind, kudos to you and please keep us updated. |
Thank you Rebbi for sharing your experience with us. In all the threads over the years on this forum this one and the SET thread have really opened my eyes concerning my prejudices of SET amplifiers. What both threads have singularly done is recognize the fact that there is a wide variation in these designs and when matched with the proper speaker these amplifiers are capable of realizing a musical experience of the highest order, which to me is a real emotional connection to the music. The AN seems like a superb value an a great place to start given the support you've received from them and the seeming quality of the Kit. I'm still not totally convinced that the AN or any 8 watt DHT amplifier is going to be an ideal match with the Decapo speakers but this isn't the point really is it? It is the journey of discovery and new realizations. Most importantly that one doesn't have to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to put together a music system of the highest order. I recently had an SET experience of my own that put to place many of my earlier prejudices which is to say when done right, carefully chosen, SETs can offer an experience that is really magical. I would also say SET amplifiers CAN do bass and CAN reproduce orchestral music at a very satisfying level. Thanks again! |
And thanks to you too Charles, a most thoughtful proponent of SET amplifiers. One thing for sure as in all thing audio, the critical importance of matching and judicious selection of components. Too often it is the lack of this resulting in an unsatisfactory outcome as has ofen been my impression when listening to some SET systems. |
I also agree with Jwm concerning the Ken-Rad VT-231. For all the positive things I've read about them they are VERY microphonic in my experience and for the prices asked are not worth it. But if you INSIST I will gladly sell you a pair at a reasonable price, after all, they still "test" well. The Sophia premium tubes ARE quite expensive but IME the best 6sn7 tube I've listened to in both the output stages of my preamp and Oppo Modwright, linear and superb extension, in other words more accurate, natural with a bigger sound at least to these ears. It always depends on what floats your boat. The RCAs and some of the Sylvanias (brown base) are excellent as well. If you purchased from Andy believe me, you purchased quality tubes. The things he tests for, microphonics, noise, transconducdence, gas emissions and life are ultimately of greater importance overall than antedotal comments from some. |
