When the SST series of amps were introduced, Bryston also updated the B60, without changing the name. I'm not sure if the price increased. The 6-9 year olds will be of the older type. There is a good chance that the 2 year old will have the SST changes. Are the changes worth the money - I don't know.
Look at the Rega Apollo new for $1k for the CDP. Most dealers are blowing out the Planets and Jupiters since they are now discontinued.
Look at the Sim Audio I-3 or I-5 used. $1950 for a used I-5 is too much IMHO. The I-3's go for around $1k and the I-5's go for about $1.5k.
If you are sensitive to brightness, you might consider other speakers than B&W's when you upgrade.
Eastern Electric minimax for $900. Tubes come with EH 6922's. Some excellent reviews of this CD player..
If I were you I would get the free 60 day trial for the Portal Panache. Or just buy the demo unit Joe offers, which I think has a 30 day return... The portal to me is a better buy then the Bryston, and also offers the headphone output. Then try picking up the Rega Apollo and you will have a wonderful sounding system that will definitely not be "bright".
For CDP I'd also check out the Opera Audio Consonance 120 if you want new, or the Consonance Reference 2.2 if you don't mind used. I have the Reference 2.2 and am very pleased with its build and sound.
I have owned several B60Rs and infact owned Signet SL280 B/Us when I bought the first unit in 1998. The match was very nice. I also owned a newer B60R and it retains much of the same character of the original with possibly a bit more headroom, bass may be a bit tighter also. Transparency seems similar but they weren't compared side by side. Either unit sounds great. It's used value is great as you will still have a warranty. I now own the B100SST. I am a big fan.
For those prices, you could buy a used Bryston 4B-ST amp and used Audio Research LS-3 preamp. The synergy between them is outstanding and they will smoke the otherwise excellent B-60.
I used to own a B-60R and have to say that I loved it. I'm totally into tubes now, but part of me still misses that amp. Get one used for $7-800 and also pick up Tara Labs "The Missing Link" or some other high quality jumper and ditch the crappy copper jumper bars that comes with. Good luck and happy listening!
I wouldn't pay more than $1000 for a B60R. But if you have the space for seperates, the 4B ST w/ a good used pre-amp is the way to go. Even a used 3B and a good tube pre-amp (CJ amoung others) would be a better way to go.
New SSt's ave new circuts and hjaven't a/b'd them but it look like you pay for conmvenience and technology of plug in phono and D/A processor.All Brystons uder rate their power so if the 60 puts 70 or 80 the SST would bench at 130 or something like that.Know that early in ST amp series their was change in transformer design which was beter but the ST lasted 20 years and the B60 if not that lonmg a running model had been around for some time and I think Bryston saw a lkot of $3500 Integrateds and thought they needed to update them.My guess is the big leap foward was from 80's B to BST models and not convinced from feedback I have goten hear from those who gacve feedback that new SST was as great aleap fgoward as was the leap 18 or 20 years ago.One drag about Bryston I thought is they made if not inexpensive excellent crossovers but the B60 had no matching plain amp shpuld you ever want to bi-amp (thier power amps all balanced na be conveted to mono).If you bought a tube VTL Itegrated they had a matching amp for equal horizontal bi-amping though not a mono conversion switch for veritcal bi-amping.Horizontal is more expensive and you only end up with 150% of of power in two of same amps and need to shell out for a crossover Bryston making one of the preffered audiophile or sutdio models (tube marchand are aslo great.Again it's not as effcient as those who have mono conversion switch (B60 does not) but their is some thign very special in sound difference with an amp dedicated to each set of drivers,Could make modest Integrated all the basis for a top flight system (not you va\canm use two different amps from same company with differing power elevels and use gain setting of crossover to make it work.You can even use differing brands or solid state for woofers and tubes for wteeters but results are harder to predict than twop of same brand with same power.So in my mind it would be neat if like a lot of tube companies Bryston had a matching amp.
Brystons a good choice used but try to get as much of 20 year warranty as you can.Other good pieces that sound good and have value are the Creek that got lot's of awards and like Bryston hasn't changed models that much.That means it sells still which means like Bryston they got it right.Depending on your speakers (and since the B60 is considred you don't need gobs of power) why not try a tube amp?I bought my EAR 834 for $1200.Less bass or dynamic slam but much better mids and fun if you want to change input tubes.Lot's good deals exist like the company Jolida which makes all tube and hyrbuis amops at very attractive prices.And remember you double the power of a glass amp over a solid state.If youi read aboiut one thing research advatages of hybrid amps.You get to have fun eperimenting wiuth different input tubes.I read article with engineer in Italy where they make a lot of hybrids that combining a tube input/pre section is way to go because the warm harmonics of tubes come from the fact that they convert voltage well but at output stage you have more,tighter bass and slamm plus less rool off of highs than full tube unit.I love my EL34 amo but know what he's talking about and know why a lot of folks combine a tube pre with a solid state amp (and you'd be doing it one chasis).One geting great review now would be Unison Unico,Pathos Classic II,and a few models from French bulder Kora.(If going uipscale you could get a BAT hybrid for $3500 used it's awesome.Some hybrids can go up to 5 figures in price).But others and some of the gear listed above like Minimax (all tube)have gotten good write ups..You can check these companies sites by gouing to Stereophile .com and pressing AV links to get to official sites (and find reviews of some in their archives).Go to audioreview.com for consumer reviews.Both have their weaknesses.Mag's love eveything because they want ad dollars (like shop salesman where if they don't have it it sucks) and many (but not all some are very insitefull and comparitive) reveiws ae audioreview or hear or audioasylum.com are folks who have bnought stuff and write staroner reviews than they should because a) they haven't comared it enough to to other stuff) tyhey bought it and are saying "Look how damn smart ZI am with my golden ears".But this may be overly cynical.Check oput a kind of esoteric site called 6moon.com.Look at Stereophiles buying guyide that comes out twioce a year/.I'd ad to list above a high value tube company being Rogue which has just intriduced cheaper stuff in their line whereas used their better amps which are highly regarded are in your buidget.If going all glass wit sperates I'd say another company that does not insult our intelligence with prposition it has to be expensivce to be good and that's Quicksliver.ZSame to slightly lesser degre but good tube stuff if VTL.But I think Bryston your are thinkiung of,Creek,or the three hybriods i mentioned are worth toime to investigate.Sincee you didn't mention your speakers or room size i hoep they are eddicient enough for this 60-100 watss of sS or hybrid power or 40-60 watts tube.Lnow this is wordy and may have been more info then you wanted but this is the inegrated lay of thje land without mentioning the mega buck stuff.Try the Pathos used for $%1600 and it looks great sound sgreat and you be more than twice as happy than wit Bryston.Same with Unison.But Bryston will get job doen and is better in my mid than mid fi like Rotel or Adcom etc.AND READ!It's a fun hobby.Travel and listen.And lastly follow rule I heard about travel.First pack all your clothes you thopught you'd need.Thenm open up suitcase and throw out half your clothes to trvael light then go to bank and double what money you had in your wallet that you thought you'd need.
well, I went and heard the Bryston B60 and the Rega Planet with my signet sl280's, very nice indeed. Then wen tot next shop, speakers in hand, and listened to Arcam cd72 paired with Arcam $700 int amp ... it sounded very nice, warm, very easy on the ears ... obviously not the detail and depth of the Bryston/Rega combo, but at $1000 less for the package, wouldnt be a bad choice (they didnt have the next step up in Arcam int amp at $,200, but would've been nice to hear) ... also listened to the MF A5 int amp ... very nice but I prefer the Bryston. Lastly while there, I listened to the Linn classic. If I only had $1,500 to spend for new CD and amp, I might go with this. Lacked the bass of everything else I heard, but there was something about it ... very nice to listen to.
So I'm still stuck on the Bryston, but would be pushing my budget to buy that at $1700.
Still wondering if I would notice any difference between a used 8-9 yr old unit for $800 and the 2 yr old unit available to me at $1700. And then there's always the worries of buying used online from someone who has a few positive comments on ebay/a'gon.
Any thoughts on Arcam cd72 vs Rega Planet, essentially the same price given the slight discount I could get on Planet.
Ugh, tough decisions!
I would have no hesitation buying a used Bryston from a well-established member w/exc. feedback. I would talk w/that person and ask a couple of questions. Original owner, box/manual/spec sheet/power-cord. Ask about shipping (possibility about double-boxing, even though the factory box is very good, I'd personally would perfer to have it double-boxed) Condition, whether the unit has needed any service work in the past, what was it used with and for how long, etc....Since the unit doesn't weigh a ton, you could easily send to Bryston for a check-up. Call up Bryston. Get a feel for the Company. I think for will be impressed w/their excellent customer service. **** You could also work w/your local dealer. Tell them you would like to buy local and support them but their asking price is too high. Offer $1100-1200. (I don't recall if the unit has a phono stage installed??? This may be why of the high asking price?) I would think they would accept such an offer. Good Luck! Bill
I currently am using a B60 of 96/97 vintage biamped with an even older Bryston 2B-LP.
I have auditioned the following amplifiers in the recent past(<1yr): Arcam Delta 60 integrated, YBA Integrated, Cary SLI-80 integrated, Prima Luna 2 integrated, Creek 5350SE integrated, Channel Island Digital Monoblocks & Classe CAP-151 integrated.
Each and every one of the above have their strengths and weaknesses from a performance point of view. The Bryston B60's are as follows:
Transparency-you can hear into the music and differentiate all of the contributing instruments
Warmth-strange for solid state amplification but the Bryston adds a touch of warmth to the sound
Soundstaging-very good width and height with good depth
Musical-it has a way of drawing you into the performance and allows you to lose yourself in the music
Dimensionality-although it soundstages very well it does not possess that elusive 3-D palpability which tubes can add
Power-I have Totem Arros which are 86db efficient and are a 4 ohm load and I can tell when the amp is working hard especially on demanding material. This is the reason why I bi-amped the Arros with a Bryston 2B-LP. Now I have the dynamics along with improved soundstaging.
Very important if you do decide to purchase the Bryston, replace the pre-amp to amp jumpers/links with high purity copper or silver jumper wires terminated with quality rca plugs. This will increase the performance by as much as 10% or more. I used 99.99% pure cotton insulated silver wire in a twisted pair configuration and terminated with silver Eichmann for excellent results.
I hope my input helps.
Check http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2770&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 for possible mod for Bryston amps.
There is no or little difference of amp design between old and new to make difference in sound.
"Very important if you do decide to purchase the Bryston, replace the pre-amp to amp jumpers/links with high purity copper or silver jumper wires terminated with quality rca plugs. "
where can I get these?
so I bought 4 year old Bryston on Agon. Looking forwarding to setting it up.
now onto a phono preamp and CD player!
I hear the Rega Planet on the bryston with my speakers and enjoyed. Want to get something used I think for 5-600, which I think I can with the introduction of the Appolo.
I'm lookin gfor a phono stage for the used bryston I bought ... I've been looking at a separate in the $200 range, and was wondering if its worth having Bryston put in an internal mm stage or if I'll get better performance out of a separate like the Cambrida Audio 640
Sandman look up above where I recommended Tara Labs The Missing Link as an upgraded jumper. It only costs around 60 bucks so if you get a B-60 make sure you get a pair. As far as a phono stage goes if Bryston will put one in for $200 go for it, that's a great price. Otherwise save up $300 and get a Lehman Black Cube. Happy listening!