I listen to mostly rock but I had extremely taught solid bass now its just mush.
Hope is just growing pains......
Hope is just growing pains......
I've tried IC's and speaker cables that had very similar issues.
During the break in period some cables can sound quite bad after a few hours - this is normally short lived - normally between 20-30 hours - and then SQ improves dramatically and then gets even better after that.
Many of the cables I have tried only sound their very best after around 400 hours, but sound very good after around 80-100 hours
I have even experienced this with RCA plugs from KLE Innovations, but they sound amazing after around 60 hours
Stick with it - they will reward you with excellent sound.
For speaker cables I simply leave the system streaming a radio station 24/7 at very low volume . Try that for around a week to get over the hump.
If you have a tube rig you might not want to leave it on 24/7, so take a look at a cable cooker.
Regards - Steve
I had their level 3 cables. Like you, they followed AudioQuest - in my case Rocket 33's. They were horribly bright and metallic sounding - mellowed slightly after a few weeks but I knew they were never going to make it, so they went back. I replaced them with Morrow SP4's. Massive improvement in every way.
Its not quite the case of not liking them.
They were fine when first installed but have changed drastically for the worse in the course of a week.
I am hoping they will change again and this is just a break in phase
Hence the point of this thread, to inquire of others actual experience with these cables.
Uberwaltz, in this thread a few months ago you indicated that you improved some deficiencies in the bass region that we and others had discussed by adding a sub, and a few weeks later you resolved them "big time" by purchasing the BAT VK600SE amp you are presently using. By any chance is the sub still in the system, and if so is it connected at speaker level to the outputs of the BAT?
If so, it seems to me to be possible that the amplifier might not be reacting well to the combination of the capacitance of the 15 foot length of Anticables (which I suspect is significantly higher than the capacitance of the former AQ’s), plus the capacitance of the wiring to the sub, plus the fact that the signal on the negative output terminal of the balanced amp is being grounded through some unknown impedance in the sub. (In general it is not a good idea to connect a powered sub to amplifier outputs that are either balanced or bridged, and of course the BAT is fully balanced). And perhaps it took some amount of time before the sonics of the amp succumbed to that combination of issues.
In any event, given that there is not a great deal of dielectric on the Anticables to be broken in, and given the severity of the symptoms you have described, my guess is that something unrelated to cable breakin has changed and is responsible for the problem.
Good luck. Regards,
your supposition is correct
the sub is still in the loop and connected in exactly the way you describe.
now I did turn the sub off and heard no real improvement but of course the cables were still connected to the sub as this was something I did not even consider.
it will be an interesting test tonight when back from the daily grind to disconnect the sub entirely and see if any audible difference.
Took the sub out of the loop entirely by disconnecting its feed cables from the BAT power amp.
This actually left the sound to be somewhat thin and hollow BUT with still a mushy boomy bass.
Reconnected the sub and fleshed out but still with the bloated lower bass although after a few more hours of playing it may be a little better.
I have plenty of time yet before the 30 days are up so I may as well keep burning them in and see if anything changes for the better.
Although it may not help your problem, instead of connecting the sub’s negative input terminals to the amp’s negative output terminals, try connecting the sub’s negative input terminals to a chassis screw (or screws) on the amp. That is what REL recommends, for example, when connecting their subs at speaker-level to amps that have balanced or bridged outputs.
There is a slight possibility that doing so could result in significant hum, depending on the internal grounding configuration of the amp. But assuming hum doesn’t occur that approach would be preferable to grounding the full amplitude signals that are present on the amp’s negative output terminals through an unknown and possibly very low impedance in the sub. Which, depending on the internal grounding configuration of the sub and the amp, could conceivably result in damage to both components, eventually if not sooner.
Good luck. Regards,
Just took a look at a few other forums on the Anticables products and it would appear that they do have a high capacitance as Almarg suspected. Nice catch Al :-)
High current solid state designs do not like high capacitance speaker cables, it caused the amp to osculate and can actually be driven to destruction. Happened to a friends Ayre amp. (ouch!)
The BAT VK600SE amp looks like a high current design, so i would play it safe and return them for something more suitable.
Look for cables with a capacitance of around 30pF/meter - the Van den hul D352 comes to mind.
My Naim amp has the same problem - but the Van den Hul D352 worked great with it
Thought I would just update this thread.
After perusing eBay and seeing a pair of van den hul d352 cables for sale, right length and right price thought I would buy them to test.
The next day I called Anticables to organise return for the cables and found my self talking to Paul Spelz himself and a true gent he is as well!
While he readily agreed to take them back and issue a refund he had a few suggestions that I could try if I wished as he was now not going to hold me to a strict 30 day return window as he had spoken to me. And as he said the ref 2.1 were engineered for more bass so I was likely suffering from a surfeit of bass causing it to sound muddied.
No problem and hey I may learn something in the process.
First thing I did was something I had been meaning to do for a while, place 15x15x2 maple blocks under each speaker with spikes coupling them to the carpet underneath.
This did indeed tame the bass somewhat and I could now hear plucked bass notes distinctly.
A little more fiddling with placement and toe in gave even better control but now I felt some of the sparkle that my Focal 826v have always had was dulled somewhat.
A bit of thinking made me realise that as the tweeters are right at the top of these speakers and I had now effectively raised them 2 1/2 inch placed them a fair bit above my ears at normal seated listening position.
Tweaking the spikes on the bottom of the speakers to angle them down towards my listening position gave me near sonic nirvana!
Imaging and prescense are outstanding, vocals and acoustic guitar are stunning, yes the bass may still be a tad overblown but I have not even tried the van den hul cables yet as still waiting for them to arrive.
But I am vastly improved from my starting point and a few good lessons learned on just basic speaker adjustments.
Just thought I would update this.
I did in the end return the anticables as just could not tame down the bass bloom to my taste.
I purchased a set of van den hul d352 to replace ( ebay, right length, right time, right price meant to be...lol)
With these I could detect no area that appeared to be unnaturally boosted so happy enough.
Then I made a change to the sub.
I swapped the present psb 6i ( really a ht sub) for the one in my ht rig which is a rel stentor 2. Darn I had forgot how heavy that beast was!
This swap entailed connecting the rel to the bat using a neutrik plug which also enabled me to lose those negative post connections as made just one to each left and right positive and one to the bat chassis.
now, now I am really enjoying the sound, the bass is much less loose, the rel punches a lot harder with its 10 inch driver than the psb did with its 12inch.
It has been suggested in another thread I posted on class d amps that i need to seriously upgrade my speakers as they are a complete mismatch to the level of the rest of my components.
Well the way things sound right now I am just going to enjoy the music for a while......
I have never had an issue with Audioquest cables. I have water XLR interconnects, rocket 88 for from 3 speaker cables( wish I could afford the same for all 11 channels LOL ) coffee hdmi, I have spent a ton of money on cables, I upgraded from rocket 33 to rocket 88, I immediatly heard a difference for the better, the midrange seemed to open up and become more transparent, after a week or so, it was a massive difference, in fact I put my old rocket 33 back on just to see if it was a plecebo effect or actual difference, and it was not a placebo effect, there was a dramatic difference. The PSC+ copper and dbs pack make a huge difference. I wasn’t sold at first I thought it was a gimmick and BS! I thought copper was copper, the 12 gauge you buy at Lowe’s or Home Depot was good enough, but I learned my lesson. I even borrowed a pair of transparent cables from a friend, these were stupid expensive I think somewhere in the area of 4000 a pair, and they sounded very shrill, pure silver vs copper, maybe the conductor makes the difference maybe it’s the shielding, I don’t know but I was would have been madder than a old red hen if I spent 4000 on cables and they sounded like that. My best answer to your question though is cables do break in, and not every cable will sound good with every system. Sometimes the lesser expensive ones match better than the UBER expensive. Good equipment will make a difference as well. With what you have depending on length I’d look at a pair of rocket 44.. not to support a certain store, but audio advisor sells a no frills rocket 33-44-88, it’s not Audioquest ends and terminated by them, the 88 doesn’t come with the dbs, that’s why I recomend 44, but they will make them to length for you and offer a return I think 30 days... not a bad program in my opinion. And it’s literally over half off the price of factory terminated. I have seen them in person and they look pretty decent.
I don’t have the most extreme system in comparison to some I have seen here, but it’s decent enough to hear differences in cables.
Martin Logan ESL13a
Martin Logan ESL34a illusion
Marin Logan Balanced Force 210
Marin Logan EFX rear