Brands w/ first order x-over, time & phase aligned


Just curious about what other companies use this approach other than Vandersteen, Green Mountain, and Thiel.

I currently own Vandersteen 2c's, and I may consider trying out a different brand if somebody recommends it. However, I love the Vandersteen sound, and I'm guessing that they are tough to beat.
robertsong

Showing 3 responses by bombaywalla

Hi Unsound, the panel speakers I cited above (esp. with model numbers) I actually verified (at that time of posting) were 1st order x-overs. Others I cited more generically since I was not sure &/or could not verify were 1st order x-over. thanks.
As Bifwynne indicated we had a very good discussion on 1st-order x-over speakers in the "Sloped Baffle" thread sometime back in July 2014. A cut & paste from that thread (which was in response to Bifwynne asking me which were the 1st order x-over speaker brands in the market in a very similar vein as you have in this thread):
07-05-14: Bombaywalla
Bifwynne, yes, I think you have the list.
Single-driver speakers are also time coherent (since they dont have a x-over to begin with) but they might not have the freq range extension you are looking for.

Some of the latest generation Martin-Logans might also be time-coherent (they claim to have made big strides in integrating their woofer with their ESL panel) & the full-range CLX.

Quad speakers are also time-coherent such as the ESL-2085 & they might other models (ESL-989?)

Another brand is Eminent Technology LFT 8. They might have a latter rev of this model, not sure.

Yet another brand would be Sanders Sound Systems 10C & 11 ESLs. You'll find measurements of the Innersound Kaya & Eros Mk3 speakers on Stereophile if you search. Innersound speakers were basically made by the same person who owns Sanders Sound Systems today. I realize that I'm extrapolating since Innersound Kayas were time-coherent that Sanders Sound Systems 10C/11 will also be. This is based on a reasonable assumption that the same designer has not changed his philosophy when he started his new company. Atleast I did not get this impression when I spoke to him in Dec 2013/Jan 2014.

I'm almost willing to say that SoundLab ESLs are also time-coherent but I might be wrong here. Not sure.

That's all I can think of right now. If I think of more brands/models I shall post. Thanks.
Bombaywalla

and in that same thread Unsound listed the following:
07-20-14: Unsound
I just remembered the name of the old poster that started a time coherent speaker company; Karl Shuemann. To be fair to all here's a list of those companies that have made time coherent speakers that I'm aware; of starting with Karl's (which fortuitously falls into alphabetical order):
Audiomachina
Dunlavy
Greenmountain
Meadowlark
Quad
Thiel
Vandersteen

thanks.
Robertsong,
I just re-read your topic heading which says "Brands w/ first order x-over, time & phase aligned".

Your next speaker that you really want should be "TIME-COHERENT". Time-coherency is what it's all about & it is time-coherency that is so very difficult to achieve unless you really know what you/speaker designer are doing.
A speaker that is time-coherent will be time-aligned, phase-coherent (I don't understand what phase aligned means) at its x-over freq & at all other frequencies as well. So, time-coherency is the super-set.
Many speaker are phase-coherent but only at their x-over frequencies. At other frequencies they are anything but phase-coherent.
Many other speakers are time-aligned - this can be achieved by a sloped baffle or inverting the driver line-up on a vertical baffle i.e. woofer top-most & tweeter bottom-most. By being time-aligned a speaker is not necessarily time-coherent. In fact 99% of the speakers in the market are not.

I would highly urge you to read the "sloped baffle" thread. There is plenty of excellent info on time-coherency by various members & in particular by Roy Johnson of Green Mtn Audio. In that thread I gave the link to one of the very best threads of all time on Audiogon that talked about time-coherency in speakers. We discussed this way back in 2002! ;-)
hope this helps.....