Brand new Technics SL-1210GR platter wobble ... disappointed!

Collectors drove up the price on GAE. So I hope there will be a black 1200G for normal people :)

gera just buy the SL1210GAE same price if you can find one

Anyone aware of a black 1200g? I'd like that!

It will be fine. You're "wobbler" was a very rare lemon. 

Great

Found a brand new in box SL1210GR from a different online dealer with a return policy. We will see how this one turns out!

Like I said, why worry about any of this? Just get a decent used 1200 for the time being, use it until the 1200GR is back in stock, then swap them. You'll make some money in the process since the vitage 1200s are still creeping up in price.
What's there to discuss?

No one can explain this nonsense, buy they heard someone somewhere (probably reviewers pretending for absolute truth in their judgement, those who promote ugly looking $30k belt drive turntables). 

The 'warm' sound I heard from my Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 turntable was the (very) audible hum from the pulley and belt contact. I was very disappointed.

I know this is off topic but could someone explain to me how the human ear hears cogging from direct drives turntables? Or is it a mechanical magnetic error that can or cannot be heard? Thanks

Chakster,
there is some options except Technics SP-10R - I like Brinkmann for example.
If I would have to choose new DD I would choose Brinkmann without tonearm.

Coreless DD motor ain’t cheap and no one can do that at the price Technics offered. This is a huge benefit, "best buy" option.

I always preferred SP-10 mkII, but most people on audiogon are beginners when it comes to turntables, and some of them don’t know how to set-up a tonearm or cartridge, so combine Drive + Plinth + Tonearm is much more complicated for them. They are all afraid of vintage turntables, so they have no choice.

New Technics are top quality turntables, G is a high-end unit and GR is not far, even MK 7 is much better than nearly all BD at this price ($1000).

SP-10R is the ultimate, if you want to talk about Technics please consider SP-10R and try to find any weakness of this taking in count its price.

If you can explain a "warmth" of a drive that rotate record then please write an article about it. I think it’s subjective and has nothing to do with facts. Everything else in analog chain can change the sound so much (much more), but not a TT drive (it’s the last thing ever).

Problem with relatively cheap BD turntables is their build quality, their tonearms (with no adjustment at all), their cheap motor, their belt, they are like toys for kids and those are the most popular today (rega, pro-ject, music hall - all that cheap crap).

Quality belt-drive is something like THIS

Warmth of the belt drive isn't the myth. I do have Era turntable paired with Ortofon tonearm - it makes a lot of soft passages in any system. I will keep it just as 3rd turntable and as curiosity.

Never liked the cheap DJ Technics like 1200 series. Nowadays they are not cheap anymore. Nowadays they are expensive turntables although in my opinion they are still cheap Technics with premium price tag.

I do like SP10 MKII with a normal tonearm/plinth it can sing.


 

Will the Technics retain the warmth of belt driven turntables?

You can’t hear a turntable, you hear a cartridge and phono stage.
Warmth of belt drive (or any other TT) is a myth!

Turntable rotate your vinyl, nothing else.
If you want warmth buy yourself some nice tube amp.

Michael Fremer in his review indicated that constant adjustment of speed gives it a sharp edge to the sound?

When you will be like Mr. Fremer you may be able to hear nuances nobody can hear.
Maybe you will need a few million dollars sound system for that.

Will the Technics retain the warmth of belt driven turntables? Michael Fremer in his review indicated that constant adjustment of speed gives it a sharp edge to the sound?

OP

 patience for the technics TT 
  
 Will last you 40 years.
just,wait for it to be in stock, or buy another somewhere else.

   If me, I would wait. 

I have an older VPI and the Technics.  I have used the VPI because the sound of belt drive can be enjoyable.  However, The Technics always makes it back and is the mainstay.  The better belt drives sound more like the Technics because they are less sloppy with their speed.  I listened to a SME 20 and preferred the technics.  I listened to a LP12 with Radical and preferred the Technics 1200G.  The Michell Gyrodec is a very good belt drive for the money and it was a close second.  For VPI, I still like their Aries but the older HW 19 Mark IV was probably their best table.  If I was to get a belt drive turntable, it would probably be a Well Tempered turntable.  it really is a great design, well thought out belt drive table with excellent isolation.

Everything is slowed down in covid, this is one of the reason why international distributors are out of stock.

In Japan you can buy all those new Technics.

Read about covid situation in Japan and think about international shipping, 90% of the flight do not exist anymore, seamail is the option, special cargo is the option, even JAPAN POST do not ship to USA anymore (temporary). This whole situation is something new and very strange. 

Defective unit from Technics is also very strange and unusual situation. 

  

I don't see how anyone, no matter how unconcerned about audiophilia, could ignore a wobbling platter on a $1500 to $2K turntable. But on the other hand, one should never be surprised at human nature.

@stereo5 I think it is a good value given the price, but there is also a cult status that these turntable has achieved and hence it is never in stock. I am certain, a % of these player are escaping QC and many users just do not care, just buy it and use it. It is us anal ones that complain. :)

For so called "junk turntables", not my words, they certainly sell a lot.

I would get a 1200 mk5, in good condition. Sometimes you find NOS. Wait till the 1200gr is back in stock, resell the mk5 for about same money.

You can buy SP-10 mkII, tonearm of your choice and a custom plinth, if will be much better than anything suggested here in this thread. This is my ex with Thomas Schick "12 inch tonearm. This is perfect and inexpensive tonearm for your cartridge.

Also, for $3000 you can find Luxman PD-444 (I use two of them in my system) and this is by far the best DD turntable for two tonearms, you can use just one if you want. Read more. 

If you want ONLY new then look for Denon 100th Anniversary model.

I know of it only the little that I've read.

@larrys have you checked out or know of (through secondhand), the new new Thorens TD-1600. I know the company is nothing like the old, but the 1600 design looks classic and has some decent reviews. It is a bit more expensive $3k than I want to spend, but was wondering.

If you're willing to go "sort of" vintage, Vinyl Nirvana sells Thorens reproduction tables with Moth (Rega) arms and many choices of hardwood plinths (and many other options).  They are beautiful, very good sounding tables and Dave is really good to work with (I have 2, a TD160 Super and an TD125 MkII).  Check out https://vinylnirvana.com and if it looks like something you might like, give Dave a call.

So, it looks like all the Technics are gone and I am told backordered until August. Can anyone suggest another TT I can try in this price range up to $2500? I have a Hana SL cart that I would like to use with it. I have Project Tube Box DS2 with GL 12ax7s in it. I think the phono for $900 is very good. Extremely quiet and the Hana SL is good too. I currently use it on a Project Classic SB that I am trying to upgrade from.

" Direct drive turntables have the best wow and flutter specs in the industry. "

Everyone says this (and maybe it is true as far as "published specs" go). But those specs typically are measured based on testing parameters that are not real world (e.g., no stylus, etc.). I’ve yet to see any actual W&F measurements from a DD.

I bought a 1200G and tried it with 3 different cartridges (Ortofon Quintet Black, Denon 103R, Signet TK7Ea). I, and a friend, preferred the sound of the VPI Prime (using the same cartridges with and without the dual pivot). And as I mentioned in a previous post, the platter wobbled (more so than the SL-1200 MkII I have). I returned it.

Too many backyard mechanics trying to make it sound like the turntable
is a poor design.  To the naysayers, you really don't know what you are talking about.  I find the direct drive to have a great jump factor, but if you would rather use a cheap Rega or expensive one with a glass platter that rings, an outdated arm and a table that weighs almost nothing, then who am I to say? My SL1200G weighs 40 pounds,I can jump in front of it while playing (old house with suspended floors) records with zero skips.  The arm once adjusted, stays that way unlike the unipivot toy that VPI uses (I owned a Prime for 2 years). 

As far as looks go, I like it better than the Prime with a lot of bling but terrible isolation.

I hope technics will take note of the issues reported here.

Direct drive turntables have the best wow and flutter specs in the industry. Unlike some people have just mentioned that is certainly not their problem. Having no suspension and an oscillating magnetic device right below a very sensitive magnetic vibration measuring device are certainly problems that might result in inferior performance not wow and flutter or "cogging" as was previously mentioned.  

I owned the Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 turntable. It was a beautiful table.

https://www.henleyaudio.co.uk/products/RPM5-1

But the arm would bounce like a rubber ball at the slightest of foot movements. The ’rubber band’ belt would stretch from heat and friction on the pulley and God forbid if you didn’t have a Pro-Ject speed box...I ended up selling it.

@audioguy85,

One of the reasons high school kids in the late 70’s thru the 80’s used Technics turntables is because they were used and didn’t cost a lot of money and you could pick one up at any second store or pawn shop. We’re talking about poor kids here, right around the time and birth of rap music. And they were built like tanks.

You know where they got the idea from? Disc Jockeys! Radio station ’DJ’s knew of the reliability and quality of the Technics tables because so many ’audiophiles’ owned them in their home rigs. Yes radio DJ’s not to be confused with the kids from the block who would throw dance hall parties.

So this may come as a surprise to you the Technics tables were known as audiophile tables, even the Technics SL-1200MK2.

https://vintagetechnics.audio/turntables.php

http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-01.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-10.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1000MK2.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1100.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1200MK2.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1350.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-15.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1500MK2.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1650.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-1900.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-2000.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-7.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-M1.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-V5.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SP-10MK2.html
http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SP-10MK3.html

OP: I looked at the videos. Well that is disappointing. To be expected from a Chinese piece of junk. Except, that this should be Japanese product of the highest caliber possible. And also, now, Chinese make high quality products (if they want). So what makes this really sad is that the Technics is a double disappointment. It's not even about the warped platter for me. 

But wait a second, I knew this all along. Ever since I got a 1200G. The one that not has the ultra bright BLUE led lights and now looks like a honda civic street racer with led lights under the body. Pathetic. And this is a classy refinement of the time proven precision machine? 

Chakster, Rega and pro-ject are not junk! I really wish you would stop!

You wish they are not, but they are junk (all entry models really are).

Just because you seemingly favor a direct drive, in particular "technics" (which by the way was developed for dj- ing) does not mean a belt drive is junk.

You know nothing about history of the brand and keep posting this BS, read wikipedia at least before you post something like that. I want to remind you that best Technics cartridges and Technics turntables are made for critical listening (and still desired by audiophiles). Only ONE particular model was adopted by DJs in the 70’s (mk2 version of the 1200 series), but originally NEVER made for DJs. All the DJing in the early disco era was on THORENS TD125 BELT DRIVE, google images from the Studio 54 (NYC world famous disco club), and try to find any Technics in the DJ booth. What you will see is Belt Drive Thorens, but no one today calling those Thorens a “DJ turntables” !? Technics DD motor was better and it was super powerful, there was a pitch control fader and this is the reason why it was quickly adopted by DJs and became a club standard since the 80’s! Another reason is durability, those decks can work forever 24/7.



BTW I want to tell you that DJs prior to 70’s are just people who put the record on the platter and push start button just like you at home with the only difference - they used a mic to say something between the tracks.



Broadcast standard for radio DJs in UK (for example) was GARRARD 301 !!! Would you call this idler drive a “DJ turntable” today? Probably not.... but look at this vintage broadcast dj setup with two Garrard 301!



The best Technics broadcast turntable was SP-10 mk2 (special version with preamp and rack) with professional version of EPA-100 tonearm. This DD drive and this tonearm are reference class audiophile gear today. In the 80’s Technics made SP-10 mk3 and EPA-100 mk 2 ... and you will hardly find anything better even if you will pay 10 times more.

You seem hell bent at every turn to call them junk. Some of the highest priced turntable in the world are of a belt driven design, not direct drive.

This world if full of people who know nothing about turntables and same king of dealers! I don’t care what is the most expensive, price is NOT a guide to the highest quality today.

Pro-ject in particular produces turntables any where from 299 to well over 6, 7, or 8 grand!

this is why it’s junk, because SP-10R cost only $8000 for the drive alone (and it’s coreless high-end DD), in Japan the price is a few grands lower!

All belt driven....my pro-ject the classic sb with hana el will give your technics a good run for the money.

I don’t use Technics turntables in my main system, my point is NOT to advocate what am I using myself. My point is to share truth and knowledge when I read some nonsense about Technics.



My turntables are Luxman PD-444 (two of them), Victor TT-101 and Denon DP-80. Those are some of the best vintage DDs you can get. Been using SP-10 mk2 for a long time, have nothing against it, just tired of it, if I will ever buy Technics again in must be SP-10 mk3 or new SP-10R.

So would my mmf-7.3 music hall. I’ve owned direct drives in the 80’s. One was a denon dp37f, little brother to the dp47f, as well as an older direct drive technics. Neither were as good as what I currently own.

You owned some mediocre stuff, and it’s very common mistake on audiogon when older people talking about something they never owned, comparing some mediocre direct drive cheapies from their past to reference direct drive turntables (old or new).

Heck, even my fully automatic Thorens td-240-2 belt drive with floating sub chassis and beautiful walnut wood bass is better than any dj looking technics.

If you like wood check this teak plinth for my ex SP-10 mkII with Reed 3p "12

You don’t like DJs - right?



But did you know that Thorens TD-125 was exactly what ALL NEW YORK DJs have been using at the disco booth?



Thorens is a “classic DJ looking turntable”, funny but it was you who lived in the 70’s and you don’t even know!?


Now for evidences Check this link, look at the images and make sure there are ONLY Thorest TD-125 at the DJ BOOTH, how do you like it @audioguy85 :))

@clearthinker, I am no fan of direct drive turntables but wow and flutter is not their problem. They have arguably the best wow and flutter specs....
as long as their platter is flat. 

This might be the first time I've seen a problem like this with a Technics turntable ever. And since they sell a kajillion of these... probably more than all the other brands combined and then tripled, maybe this is not so bad as some would make it out to be. 

I would try placing the platter upside down on a sheet of glass and pushing down at various points on the perimeter. If you get a buzz or increased buzz at s point or two, then the platter is warped. If not, then it could be the spindle or user installation issue.

I have a 1200G. The brass platter is mounted by 3 brass screws. It took me 3 times to get the screws to seat perfectly into their counter sinks.
Would they have seated on their own if I just continued to tighten? Probably...but I didn't want to take a chance so I restarted 3 times until I got it right.

The point is. The turntable may be completely defective...but sometimes it's just easy to get something wrong 3 times. Try to find out what's going on. Yes, it should never be this difficult. But sometimes I've found that I've done some strange things to get things consistently wrong.
But then again I'm a special case.

@audioguy85 there is wobble of the top surface. I could not capture it with the phone. Whether it is going to be audible is another matter of debate.

Quite correct Audioguy.

DD turntables are forever cogging, trying without success to turn the platter at exactly 33.333333333333333333 rpm.

There is continuous wow and flutter

If the speed is checked 100 times a second (or whatever silly frequency), the platter revolves at constant speed only for 1/100th of a second and then changes speed.  This iterates 100 times a second.

Another example of where digital can't compete with analogue.

@tyray, Technics 1980 is a different company than Technics 2021. Technics 1980 would never have considered moving to Malaysia. They obviously do not care about their Japanese employees. 
@lewm , now with just a small group we have three examples. 
Yes, I am a Sota fan. I just bought one of their top units. But, when I mention what I believe are the best turntables I am careful to include others that I believe perform at the same or higher level, SME, Basis, Avid, Dohmann, Oracle and so forth. If I discount the Technics for anything it is not having a suspension and being adequately isolated. Next would be that fact that it is direct drive which from my experience years ago runs against my grain. They were so bad back then that I have not bothered to look at them since. Maybe they are better now. But, I would never buy a turntable without an adequate suspension. I do not know of a direct drive with an adequate suspension. As far as QC is concerned I think that depends more on the philosophy of the company than on their size. QC is expensive and you would think a large company could afford more of it. On the other hand large companies have investors who only care about profits. Privately owned small companies are usually more concerned about their reputation. I have never seen a bad comment about Sota.
Somebody mentioned the Technics platter being machined from billet aluminum. While that may be true of the SP 10 the others are machined from inferior castings. With a heavy casting that can be fine but with thinner ones you can run into trouble like this. 

To be honest with the op, I do not see that much of a wobble in any of those videos. I’ve seen a lot worse! It seemingly is mostly/hardly noticeable on the bottom portion of that platter. When looking at the top, I do not notice much if any wobble. The top is what id be concerned about. I am tempted to say that it is within tolerance and I doubt there would be too much improvement in a replacement. I've been through this with another brand....went through 3 of them and all three had similar issue, to a lesser degree. 

Chakster, Rega and pro-ject are not junk! I really wish you would stop! Just because you seemingly favor a direct drive, in particular "technics" (which by the way was developed for dj- ing) does not mean a belt drive is junk. You seem hell bent at every turn to call them junk. Some of the highest priced turntable in the world are of a belt driven design, not direct drive. Pro-ject in particular produces turntables any where from 299 to well over 6, 7, or 8 grand! All belt driven....my pro-ject the classic sb with hana el will give your technics a good run for the money. So would my mmf-7.3 music hall. I’ve owned direct drives in the 80’s. One was a denon dp37f, little brother to the dp47f, as well as an older direct drive technics. Neither were as good as what I currently own. Heck, even my fully automatic Thorens td-240-2 belt drive with floating sub chassis and beautiful walnut wood bass is better than any dj looking technics. It is just as heavy, with better isolation, better tonearm,  and better looking.

That dude at Cruchfield is full of it. Return it. I’ve had 5 or 6 1200s, never had this problem. Even after dragging them to gigs repeatedly for 20+ years. Get your money back.

I have heard about this issue from three different people now that backed up their claims with video. It must be an issue.

I was lucky. Mine was flawless and sounds amazing. But damn, would be flaming mad if they made me wait for a fix.

That's not normal. I'd requested an exchange/return. Rather than live with defective turntable (and being pissed off every time while  putting record on the platter) I'd wait for 2 months.

Wondering what this group makes of my 1200GR wobble. The height and roundness of the top of my platter seems mostly ok, but the machining of the strobe area is a mess.

If Technics had any stock these days I would pursue an exchange for sure, but they don’t, and I’m not sure I can even get a replacement platter. It took me two months to get this table and it was like pulling teeth. It’s either keep it or probably kiss the 1200GR goodbye for another 2-4 months. 

Any feedback or perspectives appreciated! Thanks.

https://vimeo.com/519684444
https://vimeo.com/519684532

Larry, I am empathetic with you regarding your wobble.  The G series have been on sale now for about 4-5 years, in their various versions.  If Yogiboy's reference to Youtube is to your turntable, then we have two reports of this same problem occurring.  (If Yogi's cited video refers to someone else, then we have three.)  Still, I would venture that Technics sells many times more turntables than do Rega et al, probably tens of thousands total around the world.  End users tend to be audiophiles who are pretty fussy as a group and would tend to notice such an obvious problem.  Given the relative paucity of complaints about wobble, I therefore assume that the problem is very rare.  Maybe less rare than a Rega turntable that runs too fast and has no speed adjustment. (I realize that higher end Rega's do employ a motor controller that eliminates this problem.)

"because no one else have such problem with Technics platter."

Did my post from above disappear (reproduced below)?  Or it didn't count for some reason?

"I returned an SL-1200G with a platter wobble.  My SL1200MkII wobbled considerably less."

Why not switch to a turntable from a specialist manufacturer. Project are well known, Rega less so.

The situation described in this post in unique while we have tons of post about many problems with cheap junk belt-dive like Rega and Pro-Ject every week.

Unless there will be clear evidence that it’s a factory defect we can even talk about it, because no one else have such problem with Technics platter.

watch this video:
Mastering the Craftsmanship — Making of New SL-1200