Neil,
Thanks. I have dealt with Roger in the past and know his ways well. He sets a standard other manufacturers should follow. Not sure what can be done, though. I opened the preamp and there aren't any jumpers, toggles, etc. May just be a mismatch. I'm running balanced from cd to preamp. I will speak with him. I may leave it as it is (CD soungs just amazing) or demo the ARC LS26. I'm wondering now if I am missing anything from my other sources.
Thanks again for your help. |
Thanks, Blind Jim. The CD is sounding incredible into the amp directly so that may be a permanent solution-though switching cables to play different sources may not be what I want to do long term-still not sure, but CD's I dismissed as inferior recordings previously now sound superb.
I really don't want to go single ended. I don't have any more single ended inputs on my preamp and have a $2,500 balanced cable I don't want to give up. I know I can just unplug something just to try it, and do have the same cable in a single ended configuraton, but that would just be a band aid. Obviously a problem with the Esoteric/balanced preamp combo. I don't have a problem getting a new preamp and would go $6,000, if that sounds good. I will try my benchmark dac into the balanced inputs to see if its a balanced issue with preamp, just to try to make sense of it. I am aware that balanced out has a higher gain (usually 6db, or so). I can lower the level on my amps (from 0db to alot of db's) and that did not solve the problem. |
Good point. Roger is awesome. Thanks. |
Thanks, Stingreen. The CD player/amps, preamp (were)plugged into a Shunyata Hydra, not the Richard Gray. The CD Player now plugged into a RG 1200 and does sound incredible. (I can't overstress "incredible" - sounds as good as my buddy's Puccini/Magico Minis-actually). I know price doesn't necessarilly mean good sound with cables or other-but I auditioned cables extensively and found the Tara Labs The One (throughout the enire system and speaker cables) were the best sound I could get for my budget, in my system. I believe in system synergy as well, but the Esoteric was definatley overmodulating the balanced in on the preamp. I did unplug everything from the preamp except CD player - and plugged everything into wall itself, and still had the same problem. (also tried Monster Sigma Retro balanced cables as they were the only ones I had, along with generic and Signal cables). I've now listened to the CD player into the amp for 10 hours now, since last night, and am amazed by the sound. I almost don't want to change anything but the convenience of a preamp is something to desire. I will listen to my turntable carefully after lunch (through preamp). If I feel the preamp is holding it back, then I have no choice.
Thank you very much for your input. |
Thank you again, for all your input. I'm not looking to upgrade power conditioners right now. If I do, it would be an Audience (T). What I was trying to find out was if I could get the audio nirvana I am experiencing now with the Esoteric directly into the amp, by getting a new preamp. The reviews on the Puccini and the Berkely (2 of the best sounding digital) all say "...and you really have to try it direct into an amp". Trying to find out if that, indeed, is the best way to go or if a preamp (right now, for me, $6,000 budget) would get me there.
Not looking for new cables, power cords or power conditioners - just trying to figure out if I should get a preamp.
Thanks. |
Nsgarch,
Spoke with Roger. He said no worries. He had a few options but we agreed on sending preamp back and he will install some resistors on the balanced preamp input. I will ship it to him this weekend. |
Neil, Roger said that the resisters won't effect the sound. I wouldn't want to change anything in the Esoteric. I will give the resisters a try as it will be inexpensive (knowing Roger, he may not even charge though I would gladly pay) and relatively inconvenient (easy to ship as preamp is very light). If it comes back and doesn't sound as good as CD player direct to amp, no biggie as I have aleady resigned myslef to the fact that switching cables when I want to listen may be the way to go. The system just sounds so incredible now, tough to think putting the preamp (albeit modded) back in the line will put me in the same place, though Roger does think that it will. |
Neil, BTW, my Esotriic does not have a volume control. I adjust volume when it is hooke direct to amps with Rogers Active Crossover. |
Neil,
Thanks again. I have heard the Esoteric through many other preamps and none distorted. True, Esoteric is cheating a little as I am sure they are exceeding their published output 2v spec, but it sure sounds good. Really good. I did find that the preamp (actually a Coda) does have an input bandwith problem on the balanced in that, although very rarely, can modulate hot passages on certain digital gear. I don't think anyones fault (or problem-other than mine). System synergy and matching is key. I think we have become spoiled that most gear just matches up but to acheive that pure bliss musical experience takes persistance, time and alot of discipline. I can only imagine how many of us upgrade, abandoning gear that we feel doesn't do it for us, and in reality, it's just an impedence or voltage mismatch. My experience taught me alot. I love my stats but I almost pulled the trigger on new speakers. (Glad I did not as I still don't think I have heard better than Rogers Panels--or amps). I invested thousands on room treatment-as I thought the issue was room related. I got lucky bypassing my preamp and have entered audio nirvana in doing so. I don't mind the journey as now, with all the tweaks I installed (line conditioners, upgraded cables, power cords, isolation footers, etc., etc., I am now experiencing sound I previously dreamed about. Okay, it probably cost me $10,000 but all things I may have eventually done, anyway. I'm quite a hapy guy right now. And Roger is still, well, my audio God. |
Neil, I actually am having thoughts about having the preamp sent back for the ressitors to be added. Your remark about "desensitizing" made me think. The issue with the Coda (Innersound) is "limited input overhead margin (later increased in subsequent iterations) means that the occasional digital source with an above-standard (>2v) output level may cause input overload distortion when playing peaks in programs of disks that are themselves mastered hot". I am thinking that adding resistors reduces the incoming signal flow, not expand the aforementioned limited input overhead margin". Roger can change the unit to the "later iteraton" (from a 5v mac logic control to the new 15v one used in the newer gear) but he said that would reduce signal to noise ratio. I'm thinking the resisters will, indeed, effect the sound of my CD player, and I'm thinking not in a better way (reduced dynamics)? What are your thoughts on this. The system is sounding amazingly good and I don't want to degrade. Thanks again for all your help, Neil. By the way, you have an awesome system. |
Neil,
Thanks for the extra info on your rig.
I would like to hear something on your speakers. Have you had the Innersound Stats and how do your now compare?
Roger had advised the new preamps had the 15v throughput on the logic servo but had less signal to noise than my pramp, so not something I want to give up. Ddd1, a new preamp may be an option but as I have said, the no preamp for my CD is just sounding magical (and the more digital reviews I read, all seem to agree that preamps don't necesarilly help). I listened to some vinyl and R2R last night, through the preamp, and really no need to upgrade it as it sounds great. I have decided to, for now, live with the cable swapping. Thanks, everyone. I really appreciated your input. |
