Bower and Wilkins and its relationship with Classe and Rotel

Bombaywalla
B&W is a very hard speaker to like to begin with & pairing it with a Classe amp was a bad idea in my opinion.

@ bombaywalla

They can be if not set up right. This is after all about setup and the sum of all the parts. Unfortunately the forums never seem to discuss the basics of how a certain brand of speaker is designed, and room interactions. For example some do not realize that B&W 800 series speakers are voiced in an anechoic chamber.

Click here

http://blog.bowers-wilkins.com/sound-lab/tools-of-the-trade-the-anechoic-chamber/

and their drivers are voiced to be aligned (come into focus together) after a specific distance.

For example again;

The 802d series speakers (very popular in homes and recording studios), you need to be sitting at least 9 feet 10 inches away for their drivers to be aligned. (coherent)

Bombaywalla your AudioGon moniker shows the maxwell tape guy listening to speakers a few feet away. This is not possible with B&W 800 series. :^) Well that’s not right. You can do it. But it is not what these speakers were designed for. So you can make something work, or you can make something work well.

How many dealers tell customers this ^^^ information. or are they even aware of it, as it is not clear in the owners manual. 

@ OP macandtosh

+1 to what DS said about different brand amplifiers.

Bombaywalla

hmmm....

B&W could be short for Bombay-walla......   8^)
could not resist...

Re: your comments on John Bowers and Matrix - I have owned all the matrix models at one time, and a pair of 801 matrix s3 since '94. They are now stored for my son. Matrix 800 replaced them. So I have a strong formed opinion on this topic, and it is reflected in my virtual system.

With that.

I have different speaker designs in the house. I was eventually able to make them all work for me. Meaning could live with each one.
Each come with Pros and Cons but with time, if one is not a frequent flyer audiophile, you can learn their general properties, some changes here and there and you are on your way. But this thread is about Rotel and Classe with B&W.

I have found that audiophiles, and especially audiophile engineers always like to discuss the gear aspect. And rightly so, as the gear can make or break the music coming from a speaker. But I can confidently say at this point, with speaker brands that have been voiced in an anechoic room. Regardless of the gear being used -  that this holds true.
   
https://community.klipsch.com/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-10590-13819475350236.jpg

So lets not forget the room.

Some fun with my coffee this morning.
Happy listening

Bombaywalla

.....there was too much to wade thru. Can you post a link?

BW

The Readers Digest version is available. On virtual system click on toggle details beside Components. Read the summaries for;

• Matrix 800
  
• 801 Active Monitors-Currently Stored
  
• 800 Series Bass Alignment Filter / Equalizer
  

Spend some time on the picture that shows the graph results of the Bass Alignment Filter on the 801 matrix. This was obtained from B&W UK. Some truths are revealed. Would be happy to discuss this more here as this directly affects amplification; or come say Hi on my system thread.

If the info found in the above entries is of interest, there is much more detailed information, on which the opinions were formed. But you will need to read through the posts :^) Unfortunately the AudioGon virtual system posts themselves can not be linked yet with the new system.

I am kind of intimidated to go there myself - read through my past posts. Audiophilia Nervosa can be a scary thing. I do know, if my wife discovers my moniker and reads through. I think I am in big doo doo. She will gain too much leverage.

Leave you with a thought. Everyone here knows B&W is one of the most well known, discussed brands in the Audio business. And this is why there is such a love/hate thing going on - like other brands in this position. Now whenever a regular person, not an audiophile, comes over and sees the funny looking tall speakers, and I tell them they are made by B&W.

10 out of 10 non-audiophiles; the response back is always the same.

"Oh, I didn’t know BMW made speakers"


Cheers

Bombaywalla - The BAF is a gimmick for a speaker whose designer could not design it correctly in the 1st place & had to add a bass extension/alignment filter to fix a flawed initial design.

BW
You can call it a Gimmick - gizmo - device - equalizer - booster - filter .... we can call it whatever we want. Do we know how many gimmicks are used to bring that CD, Download, or LP to us to buy ? Dan D’Agostino is a highly respected amplifier designer/builder. He cared enough about it (B&W BAF) that he had KRELL build a B&W BAF version that he used with his reference at the time Matrix 800’s in his own living room.

http://hansvt.home.xs4all.nl/pdf/brochures/baf.pdf

Now I value those opinions that come from direct ownership with details about the setup. This way one can determine if the opinion applies to them or not. Do you have this BAF experience with an 800 series speaker in your room ? I have been through 3 different BAF’s within a 22 ? year period.

This is a topic for another thread but let’s understand something. For a speaker to have full bass extension at least two things are required. 1) The design itself needs to be capable and 2) the room it is placed in needs to be able to support the bass waves. You wonder why an Audiophile spends $$$$$ on an "advertised" flagship full range speaker; and then complains about bass, and needs to be bring in subwoofers?

The Matrix 800 model itself does not need the BAF. They are full range without it. But what the BAF does is ensure a fuller range for the entire 800 Matrix Series line, especially if the room doesn’t support it. Like your average living room. This was also in an era when 2 channel was the focus and subwoofers not so prevalent as today. On the 801m without BAF, things start dropping off quickly around 40-50 hz. So I don’t see this as a Gimmick. I see it as Genius. I think most agree as they became the No. 1 monitor.

The new D3’s are showing full range specs again. But even though they may "hit" the low notes, I can’t see them pressurizing the room due to their small size, again depending on the size of the room. I am assuming subwoofers will be needed for full range. Maybe an owner can chime in; or since Douglas Schroeder is on this thread maybe he can snatch a pair for review and let us know. :^)

lalitk
Heck, I have guys come to my home and tried to grab the tubular tweeter thinking it’s a microphone for karaoke :-)

Funny !

As long as they don’t try to sing Adele’s - Hello.