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Big speakers in small room at moderate volume levels

My office is 11’W x 10’L x 9’H and is where I can listen to music for the next few years. I have a toddler and, for now, he has commanded the big spaces in the rest of the house. I have auditioned the Magico A3 and wanted to buy it but that was before I was relegated to the smallish office (I was expecting to move to a bigger room). I have removed the closet doors in this office room. The removal of the closet door gives me another 4 feet of depth to this room, though for only 1/2 width of the room. I can sit unobstructed 8 feet away from the speakers before I hit the area where the closet ends (so near field listening).

I currently I have KEF LS50 with Peachtree Nova 150. It is good and I can listen for the whole day without fatigue. I listen to FM, digital files on ROON, and my Sony SCD-1 SACD player. I want a bigger sound so I am looking at bigger speakers. I also do not want to use a sub since I am not a fan. I will also upgrade the NOVA 150 to the NOVA 500 in Spring 2019 and use with the LS50’s in a bedroom.

I came to the conclusion that my tastes would be best served by one of KEF Reference 1 or Magico A3. I was thinking that I would use the Lyngdorf 3400 in this room but I am having seconds thoughts on this now (some A’gon comments that it maybe a little dry). I am interested in solid state AB units like the Hegel H590 and Mark Levinson 585 to drive the speakers. I have heard the ML 585 and it is a fatigue free sounding unit that was a joy to listen to. I have not heard the Hegel H590 yet (but have heard other Hegels with KEF) and I am in the process of getting an audition of the H590. I have also discounted the class AB Micromega M-One 150 (with MARS room correction) because I do not want a cooling fan blowing in the room.

I must mention that I do not listen that loud when I am working and when I am working very late at night the volume is very low. The Mark Levinson and A3 combo was very good at low volumes during my demo but that was in the dealers perfect large room.

1) Am I making a mistake foregoing room correction with the 2 integrateds I am considering? Should I go with the Lyngdorf and A3 or KEF Ref 1, though I have never heard the Lyngdorf?

2) Will the Magico A3 work in this small room at moderate volumes WITHOUT room correction or will I subject myself to headaches and fatigue?

I am going to ask the dealer selling the A3’s this question when I am ready to buy but i wanted to ask on A’gon first to get some feedback. I doubt I could get the A3’s into my room for a trial but I have not asked the dealer yet.

I think (not 100% sure) the KEF Reference 1 with a non room correcting amp should work in my office space but I would prefer to buy the Magico A3 for the office. I have plans to buy another KEF model once my kid is a bit older and I can kick him out of the big room.
yyzsantabarbara

Showing 16 responses by gosta

gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
It may have been said in earlier posts but Lyngdorf 3400 in addition to automatic correction and eq curves also has manual dsp correction. So you are actually able to get whatever sound you like. If you want subs to do the low parts the crossover facility in Lyngdorf amps is very good. A much cheaper but powerful alternative would be the new XTZ edge amp paired with an Antimode 2.0. No crossovers though. 
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
If I were you I'd pair my new Lyngdorf  3400 with a big ATC or beautiful Tannoy. You will never never have a look at a LS50 again. Good Luck :-)
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
There is also a RP-1 Lyngdorf unit, which is a preamp with DSP, EQ curves and crossover. No amp. No DA. I use it a lot. You may find one used for a little more than 1K. No manual dsp setting though. Or have a look at the more expensive DEQX. I also believe ARC2 is great.

Vanessa Fernandez gives an ok listening all in all. But her voice is not sweet at all on most of her recordings. Rather sharp and forced when she gets louder. No Roberta Flack there :-) Maybe just bad mics... If you found it sweet then the system was, in my opinion, colouring it. 
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
@gdnrbob
It’s not about that at all. It would be quite impossible. It’s about giving the speakers a chance to present their best, mostly in the bass and low-mid were the room interacts the most. I mean - they were not exactly build to play music in your listening room at precisely your listening spot. It’s a simple way to more fairly compare the true sound of different speakers.

It’s a real relief when the muddy and freq. wise uneven sound from all room interactions, resonances and standing waves is reduced with a professional correction system. Some also are supposed to work with the phase issue. Naturally, you should try to treat your room and work with your speakers placement as much possible before you use any dsp.

The Anti-Mode 2.0 may be the cheapest and most practical way to experience this. Gives you the opportunity to set the upper freq. for dsp. 500 Hz is standard.

Note though that the resulting correction is rather depending of where you put the mic. So you may not like the first try.
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
@ jackd 

+ Wavelet. Now, this is interesting. Didn't know of. 

@yyzsantabarbara 

No love for Legacy speakers?  

When testing the Lyngdorf room correction I would advice you to try the different built-in eq curves. I mostly listen to the one named "Open" which decrease the lower register 2db from 200Hz and down. I often find the "Normal" setting a little too bass heavy. Taking away information from lower mid. That's why I'd like the 3400 model with added manual settings possibility. 

gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
+3  This may be a good year :-)
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Very curious of what you end up with. Please keep on posting. Would give a lot to hear those speakers. They're a bit different I suppose. Not sure why you got such a bad impression of the Lyngdorf. Find their amps (I have the 2400 model) very neutral with the capacity to drive problematic speakers without any stress. The xover functionality is very important for me since I use big ATCs as mains but also a lot of other speakers which I pair with the ATC 15 inch woofers. Recently though I have begun to use the new and very cheap XTZ Edge d class amp to drive some speakers with very good result (which means I don't think of the amp at all - it's just a wire with gain). 


gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
@ yyzsantabarbara

I’m interested to. There’s so many "effects" in that track. Can you say what time it starts? She harkles after 11 sec and prepares to sing after 19 sec and start singing after 40 sec. Is it somewhere there or is it later? The whole song?

That advice for Wayfaring Stranger with Emmylou was excellent. Really fine recording. Her voice was fantastic in those days. The Wrecking Ball cd is a recording that separates speakers/systems. But her voice is harder now, always interesting but a little tireing. I would say that the live cd Spy Boy, mostly based on Wrecking Ball, is one of the best live recordings for sound quality (and music). Sometimes terrifying music for the speakers at high volume (Deeper Well) but still no ear fatigue - they bleed instead.. :-) But you will need something else than LS50 for these cd’s (sorry - but I’m sure you are aware of that). Flat bass capacity extremely important. Fine test for your office room.

Have listened to Rebecka Flack cd "Quiet fire" today. What a gem. Voice, bass, piano, choir, orchestra and a very very deep soundstage. This is real music.

All I wanted to mention was that if you find the Lyngdorf room corrected bass a little to much, or would like a little more forward low-mid, don’t miss to ask your dealer to try the "Open 1" and/or "Open 2" eq curves.

gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Linda with Aaron one of my long-time favourites. Some tracks a little bright though (when you play high high volume). Aaron's "Warm your heart" is one of my references. 

Came across the group Wayfaring Strangers also. Lots of recordings of that track. Liked, of course, Eva Cassidy's versions. The sound of the group was very big, a bit too much in my room, probably got some room nodes working. Will listen more.
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Nice thread on DEQX. From 2014 and still alive and well! Anything on Trinnov? A little simpler to use than DEQX for a non-pro I've read. Isn't DEQX more for diy-ers?
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Bought a used Anthem MRX510, with the ARC2, to use for my desk top system. Hope it will be a step up from the Paradigm PW AMP I used so far and been very satisfied with. The PW AMP has no digital in so I presume it makes an AD/DA conversion for the ARC2. Want to get rid of that. Eventually also a better amp even if I don't need five channels. Or, maybe I do....
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
@ yyzsantabarbara
got the ARC2 from before and it works very well with my desktop system to reduce all negative reflexes you have from the desk, pc monitors and so on. It’s really fun to listen into the mix when you sit very close. Hard to work though! My ATC SCM12 presents a fabulous sound (together with small REL subs) that I’m not shure the TAD can match :-). Always tries new monitors though. Recommend you a try with your KEF:s although I myself find them a little boring (less dynamics, no usable bass and hard to integrate with a sub, low SPL capacity). I have the active LS50 - possibly havn’t given it enough chances.

Don't know though how the ARC2 will work for longer listening distances.

Last night I removed my JBL 6328P monitors from the wardrobe and put them on top of my ATC150ASL in the movie/music room. I’ve had problem listening to the JBL’s as a near-field because they are so brutal. The drums really hurt you and they are a bit edgy (harsh) in the upper mids. Like pro monitors tends to be in general, because they are really a working tool and made to let you discover all faults in a recording.

Putting them higher up I thought would make the sound come from about the same height as the performers on the video. To get a more realistic presentation and fill the room better. Worked! It also took some edge of the speaker. I then started to work with the crossover and the parametric eq in my Yamaha surrond cx-a5000. Put the crossover for the svs-pb16 ultra sub up to 100hz (I normally use 60hz). Reduced -3db at 60hz and -2db at 125 hz to reduce some remaining bass thumbs (used the antimode sytem on the sub before that) and finally reduced -4db at 2,6 khz to make guitars, saxophones and harsh voices a little softer.

I was congratulated by my son to now give him the best concert sound ever!

You never know what you have before you tried to make the most out of it. Speakers, listening positioning and room treatment (manual and digital) is 90% of the sound. The rest just cherries on the pudding. That's my view.
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
@digsmith 

I'd like to recommend you to try and find a pair af the ATC C1 subs to add to your SCM 19v2. They play perfect bass and should be a great compliment. Would like those 19s myself. Do you have the passives or actives.

This weekend borrowed the Monitor Audio Studio stand amounts. Not familiar to the Monitor Audio sound, but these are maybe the most unforgiving speakers I've listened to. No windows or curtains. No added warmth here. Good to have when the recording itself is a little too much. Subs necessary from 80-100 Hz. Easy to integrate wihle they don't have much below. Have taken the driver technology direct from the top MA range it says. Inexpensive.


gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Since you’re so happy with the LS50, why don’t you try the Ref 1?
I’m right now listening to the 201/2 model in a near-field setup and crossed at 100Hz. It delivers a huge, very dynamic and very detailed/transparent sound with maybe the best mid and upper bass I’ve had. The troublesome bass solo on Rickie Lee Jones "Easy money" is just fine. Gregory Porter the same. You can "see" his a big guy...The 201 tweeter can be a little tuff on lesser recordings (I like that - more live/true feeling). The Ref 1 more polished I'm sure.

gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Alright, I can see it’s time for a floorstander :-)

Because you are sitting behind a desk, and your room isn’t that large I think you really need some room correction. I have the same situation.
A small unit that is a really great tool and a step into the RC world is the Paradigm PW amp with sub out and ARC2 RC system. Works very fine. I prefer it to the Lyngdorf because you can adjust the result, you can easily play with several adjustment files and you get to see the frequency curve before and after (true or not..). Integrates subs very fine and it’s a small cost. Find out what it can do to your present listening. It has power enough to drive the KEF 201/2 as near-fields. To get the ARC2 RC system you need to buy an Anthem or Paradigm amp or processor.

To your fullrange list I would add the PMC Fact 12 and why not the Tannoy DC 10T (for another presentation). The new Yamaha on your list is very exciting. Actually I’m an ATC fan....so why not the 150 SL... (they easily disappear in the room :-))

How are the Audience 1+1 V3? I’ve been having thoughts about them.
gosta's avatar
gosta
839 posts
 
Audiovector S1 Avantgarde Arréte is another favourite. Preferrably crossed at 100 to subs (as no small monitor really has capacity to play good bass in a normal room).
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