Bidding Frustration


This past weekend I placed a bid on an integrated amp and the seller countered. My understanding is the counter was to be open to acceptance or rejection for 48 hours. I gave it some thought and about half a day after the counter was prepared to accept it but it was gone as was the listing. I e mailed audio gin and the answer I received was yes a counter is good for 48 hours unless the seller pulls the listing. Logic indicates that while the counter was pending the seller received another offer he accepted and pulled the ad. My opinion is not cool. Thoughts?
pgleekel
I disagree with you. Put yourself in the sellers shoes - and recognize buyers evaporate into thin air without notice all the time. If you wanted to lock up the seller you would need to get an agreement that you wanted a period to consider it and have first right of refusal in the event he/she receives another offer.

AFAIK, all "best offer" systems work this way, where an open offer or counter does NOT lock up the seller. At least A'gon, and eBay work this way.
What would you have done?
You snooze you loose. You should not expect to lock up the sale of the sellers amplifier for 2 days. The seller could have received a equal or better offer than what he countered you with and sold the amp, in which case the ad disappears automatically from Audiogon.

However don't fret over small thing like this, another amplifier is going to show up sooner or later, that might even be less expensive and better.

Good Listening

Peter
agree with the above. nothing is sealed until BOTH parties agree and put it in the system.
The seller always has the option of accepting a higher offer or a Buy It Now from another buyer even after you've sent them your offer. It has always been this way, AFAIK.
Time waits for no one.
I don't bid on anything i like make an offer bidding is JIVE!!
I appreciate the input. I have not sweated it,I agree it is just an amp. Was looking for some perspective on the issue if only to dictate how I may handle a similar situation if I find myself in the seller's shoes.
I agree--it's snooze you lose. That being said, I think that should be more clearly spelled out. In real estate, a counter-offer (written) is binding should the buyer accept it.

I think Audiogon (or at least Audiogoners) should make it clear that, hey, here's my counter but if someone else comes along with a better or full price offer, then I'm gonna take it.
Agree the seller can and will accept a better offer. And the seller is NOT obligated to wait. Only if he took a smaller offer.. then yeah it would be a bit iffy.
No one is going to hold an item for some lower bid when a full pricee bid comes along.
No question.
I would contact the person to whom I sent a counter and asked them to let me know as soon as possible if I received another offer and told them the time frame I needed a response or I would move on. To me that would be the honorable thing to do.
I never bid on anything for two reasons: First, there is always the possibility of someone outbidding you-fun for the seller, not fun for you; Second, many auction items begin where I think the normal resale price should be. Some slick sellers are hoping to snag a newbie at an inflated price out of ignorance. Very unethical!

I once went to see a Sony CD player at a sellers home and we agreed on a price and shook hands with an agreement to meet the next day with my cash in hand. I called the next day to confirm our appointment and found that he had sold it to someone else. I can't reveal the right word for that except that it starts with "B" and ends with "T".
I would contact the person to whom I sent a counter and asked them to let me know as soon as possible if I received another offer and told them the time frame I needed a response or I would move on. To me that would be the honorable thing to do.
Then as a seller, you must put the other offer on hold, and give him time to rethink and withdraw his offer, and then the guy you countered says no within the "time frame." Now as the seller, your item is still "for sale."

Your scenario would probably work among friends, but not on an open market. Suppose you make an offer on a used car, then the owner counters, but you leave to think about it, and when you return, the car has been sold. As Pbnaudio said, "You snooze you loose."

IMHO, if I gave someone a counter offer, and did not hear from them for half a day, I would assume the answer was no, regardless of Audiogon's time frame.
Agree that until a price is agreed upon, the item is available to be sold to a better offer.
wait a minute all...

Reading this thread, it doesn't sound as if the OP's situation is being addressed.

However, there are some problems with how things are stated since a seller cannot "counter" a "bid," which raises the question, was this a "bid" on an "auction" or an "offer" on a "classified" listing? Assuming the seller actually submitted a "counter offer" to Pgleekel's "bid," as stated in the post, then this had to be a classified listing and Bdgregory's comment;
all "best offer" systems work this way, where an open offer or counter does NOT lock up the seller. At least A'gon, and eBay work this way.
is not true here.

Classified listings here are subject to Audiogon's rules;
When a Seller submits a Counter Offer, you will receive an emailed notification. The Seller has committed to hold the item until the Buyer responds to the Counter Offer (or it expires in 48 hours).

The Buyer may then choose to either Accept or Decline the counter offer.

If the Buyer Accepts the Counter Offer, the Buyer and Seller have entered into a binding agreement based on the terms outlined in the Counter Offer.
If the Buyer Declines the Counter Offer, no agreement is reached and the negotiation has ended, with no obligation to either party.
The Buyer may then submit a new Offer if they wish. The Seller also may move onto other offers that may be available.
If this was a classified, and an offer was made by Pgleekel, and if the seller made a counter offer through the Audiogon system, then the item is in fact locked up until Pgleekel responds to the counter offer, or a maximum of 48 hours, as stated in the Audiogon Support Center rules under "Making Offers."
The Seller has committed to hold the item until the Buyer responds to the Counter Offer (or it expires in 48 hours).
If the seller somehow pulled the ad after making a counter offer (maybe he had it listed also on Aasylum or ebay and sold it there) then that is a violation of the Audiogon trading system and subject to negative feedback by the prospective buyer, or other sanctions if deemed appropriate by Audiogon.

They have buy sell rules here for a reason and if folks want to use this system they should respect and abide by those rules.

OTOH, if this was an auction, and if Pgleekel made a "bid" that was lower than the reserve set by the seller, then the seller could in fact pull the auction, if no other bids exceding the reserve were received as provided here;
If your auction has NOT met reserve, or there are no bids, then you may cancel or close it early.
Anyone buying or selling on this site should become familiar with the rules, which can be found here;Audiogon Support Center
Mitch,
Nice job clearing this up.
I want to point out that the OP stated that Audiogon responded "a counter is good for 48 hours unless the seller pulls the listing"
This does seem to contradict their rule "The Seller has committed to hold the item until the Buyer responds to the Counter Offer (or it expires in 48 hours)".
There is a difference in an initial offer and a "counter offer". The initial offer, (from the buyer) does NOT lock the sale out to other offers or Buy It Now.

If the seller does a "counter offer" it does indeed lock the sale down for 48 hours or until the buyer agrees to the counter offer or declines the counter offer or times runs out, (48 hours).
My title confused things and for this I apologize. In fact, I made an offer and the seller sent me a counter offer. My read of the rules was I had 48 hours to respond. Thus, my frustration that well before the 48 hours had expired the listing was gone. I then submitted a question to Audiogon and was told that if the ad was pulled then I did not, in effect, have the 48 hours.

Mitch does indeed clear up things. Now that he has done so in light of my misleading title, I am curious about what those who have responded in one way or another "you snooze you lose" feel about the situation. The same?
Pgleekel, while Audiogon members can be a great sounding board, unfortunately public opinion will not really solve your issue. In these situations, your choice is either to take action, or not.

Not sure why Audiogon would give you the "unless the seller pulls the listing" answer if they understood your question, since that is not supported by their own buy/sell rules, but then they do not govern, they only facilitate.

In any event, I believe your options would include either leaving negative feedback for the individual who pulled the ad, starting a dispute, or simply letting bygones be gone. I see you have been here awhile so you know there will be other opportunities, like Peter said above. Better luck in your future dealings.
Thanks Mitch once again you are right on the mark. I decided a bit ago to let it go. After all it's just stuff and I do know there will be other opportunities. Truth be told, I was simply curious about how people would react to the situation and thus give me a chance to get a feel for how a majority of those who responded might conduct themselves if placed in a like place.
The waiting period causes problems on both ends. As a seller I have lost sales waiting for a buyer to respond to a counter offer, and as a buyer I have missed out on buying other gear while waiting for a seller to respond to an offer. And some members never respond, instead letting offers expire. I try to respond to offers and counter offers immediately.
Imo....In this day and age 48 hours is way too long...  

I learned something though....that counter offer freezes the seller?  I won't be doing any more counteroffers!
You should have jumped on it ASAP!!!!