Bi-Amping


Hi everyone,

Well I steped up to dual power amps and bi-amping my custom made (self built) speaker system that I have finally finished- Cerwin Vega 15 inch subs, Vifa 8" bass and 6.5 Mid bass, dual Vifa 3 inch SoftDome mids, with a Morel 30's for the tweeter. The subs are @ 80Hz (via the B&K), the speakers are crossed @ 300Hz, 500Hz, 700Hz, and 3200Hz- 2nd order for the lows and 3rd order for the highs. One amp runs the subs and the other the speakers.

I am using two (2) Proton D-1200's, a B&K PT5 preamp, with an Audio refinement CD player. I am running Monster MCX 2s wire (4- 15' foot runs), Audio Quest power cables, and Monster M850i Interconnects, this is connected to a dedicated 20A wall outlet.

My room size is 28x14, shot gun style, painted dry wall, and half carpeted/harwood flooring, 8' room height.

My question is: I was expecting a more powerful sound then what I have presently. While everything did open up, it seems the DB output did not increase substantially, as a matter of fact, it seems I must now nearly max the volume control on the B&K to achive similar output when I was using a single amplifer. All be it, the sound is more refined and much tighter, the DB output did not increase. And I am concerned that the B&K is having trouble outputing enough voltage to run two amplifiers.

Is this the norm? Am I not suppling enough "juice" to the amplifiers via the wall outlet? Or, do I have to large a "hole" between the subs and the Speakers?

While this does sound very impressive, I am not as "jazzed" as I thought I would be.

Any ideas, comments, help?
alpha_03

Showing 5 responses by ar_t

Good grief.......

I missed this first time out.........

You have an 8" bass, 6.5" midbass, and a 3" dome midrange?

There is the clue why you don't like the sound. I won't even touch on the mish-mash of crossover points and slopes.

Go ahead......hate me.

After you get over hating me, seriously consider going active. I suspect that you will enjoy twidling with an active crossover. Much easier, and therefore more gratifying, than twiddling with caps and coils.

Cheaper in the long run, also.

I have built custom made crossovers, but they were all "twiddle-proof". It is too tempting to twiddle with them, and one can waste a lot of time twiddling and making things worse. Lots of fun, but not always a step in the right direction.
You can hate me.......it won't hurt my feelings! Some of my ex-coworkers will tell you that I made a career of getting people (mainly bosses) to hate me. Ah......the good ol' days.

Anyway.

Seriously, if you are going to try that many drivers, with that combo of crossovers, you MUST use some fancy measuring stuff to know that it is done right. In which case, you would know for certain what the problem is.

I'm not saying that multiple drivers, etc. won't work. I am saying that you can't guess what works and what doesn't. I think it is a safe guess that you do not presently have the gear to do such. Ergo, you don't know why you have a gain problem.

OK, back to your problem.

8 V out of a preamp is enough to melt any amp. Most amps have 26 dB of gain. A few dB either side, maybe.

As for drive, it should be able to drive 2 amps. Most amps are at least 10K input Z. That is not likely to be the problem. 5k is not that hard of a load to drive, which is probably a safe guess for worst case. A mismatch in gain more likely is.

As for your setup............you may want to try 4th order Linkwitz-Riley. That many drivers, with crossover points so close together, can be a nightmare. Not only do you have to take into account the phase of the crossover, but also that of the drivers. Heh, heh.....

One of my famous audio designer buddies had a very expensive multiple driver systen, made by a very well-known designer. I showed him how it had a nasty comb filter effect, depending on whether you were a short guy like me sitting down, or a really tall guy like him standing up. And everything in between.

He very quietly put them up for sale 2 weeks later.
This one makes no sense:

"Input resistance / capacitance: 1V"

Check that one, and let us know...........

The one about "dynamic power" is just marketing nonsense, written to impress you. The idea is that the peak power, at the top of the waveform, is calculated to be such-and-such watts. In the real world, it is a useless figure.

The one about head room is more revealing. That tells me it probably has a smallish power supply, and that the rail voltage will sag a great deal under a constant load. Problem is, they give one figure for all 3 impedance levels, and that can't be right. I bet it is a lot less than 7 dB @ 8 ohms. At least I would hope so.

So much for believing specs.
That sounds better. Any preamp should be able to drive 2 of those (or most anything) in parallel.

As for specs.........

Most are not to be taken seriously. Does not matter who wrote them, or for what gear. I'm sure you told us what they claim the specs are. Doesn't mean they are correct.

Back to headroom..........

If that figure is for 8 ohms, then the supply is too small. If it is for 2 ohms, then probably not. But they don't really say, do they? In which case, it is a meaningless number.