Beyond the sound of things, and into the soul of things.



Beyond the sound of things, and into the soul of things.

Hi-res audio blows MP3s and AAC files out of the water. Essential data is lost when you listen to music via MP3 files because of the lossy compression that makes these files smaller. High-Resolution Audio can replicate the whole range of sound that the artist created when recording the content. Sony understands the importance of preserving the originality of music, which is why we’ve developed Hi-Res Audio products that allow audiophiles (like you) to listen to music in the best sound quality.

I listened to a file that I had downloaded in WAV which is a higher resolution than FLAC; this was Santana "Abraxas", an LP I bought in 1970, and since that time, have worn out many copies; to say I know every note on that LP is an understatement.

When I compared that file to my pristine LP, it was first in the lineup. As I listened, "It just doesn't get any better than this," I thought.

Now it was time for the LP; as the wax spun, I was floored on the first note; it was so definitive; after that keyboard intro, Santana's guitar just hung in the air, followed by the banging notes on the keyboard again, and then those unforgettable chimes; "Singing Winds and Crying Beasts" is the most perfect instrumental ever; IMO.

While the Hi-Res sounded good, the LP in my room felt good; I was flooded with all the memories I had experienced with this music playing in the background. Does anyone remember "Black Lights"; they made ladies legs glow in the dark when they wore certain kinds of stockings, what a scintillating sight.

So many colorful memories of my misspent youth passed before me as I listened, if only I could misspend them again. That's what the LP did for me; it regenerated my soul with it's soul; LP's have life, digital is the sound after it has been stripped of it's life.



              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn50ipwWarg



Can you relate to the "Soul" of things?


     
orpheus10
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@mewsickbuff

Not everyone has a passion to keep vinyl clean or listen to the (rare or many) clicks and pops they present or get up and flip it when one side is done or pay the price it takes to make vinyl sound better that CD. Another thing is with vinyl you HAVE to listen to every song, even if you don’t like it. CD, you can skip what you don’t like (probably a major reason why CD sells are bottoming out and streaming is so popular).

Don’t but an LP if you don’t like most of the tracks on it, buy SINGLES with one track per side or EPs with few tracks per side, buy what you like.

If you want a vinyl turntable act like a CD with programmable function to play only selected tracks from each side of the LP then look for automatic turntables like Technics SL15

You can also have two turntables like many of us, it’s easy to play next track on another turntable and switch between the tables on the phono stage input selector (just like the deejays on the radio).

But if you’re too lazy and all you need is background music nonstop then you don’t need vinyl, you need digital (streamed audio). You can also record your own playlist from your vinyl collection.

But i don’t understand how all that digital BS can replace a vinyl collection ?

P.S. When anyone is talking about clicks and pops of the vinyl media i can say for sure that this person is not a vinyl lover. I don’t clean my vinyl as a fanatic, they are just in perfect condition more or less, i use brush each time i play them, most of them are 40 years old, but i can’t hear any serious clicks and pops that makes me think of a digital alternative to playback music, no way.  

It’s like claiming that tape has some sort of hiss.

This is a nanure of analog media!


Dear elisabeth, Your separation between ''true facts'' and

''less than  true facts'' is as curious as properties without any

bearer of the assumed properties. I mentioned truth as

well falsity  of statements, If one has an clear idea one can

easily formulate this idea. Language is not the point. But

we need to grasp what is stated in order to judge: true or

false. As far as I know there are only two ''truth values'' :

true or false (tertium non datur). Your ''account''  imply variations

in  truth  depending on their complexity. I am not an expert in

philosophy of science but am not aware of ''different kinds of

truth''. Or different kinds of facts as mentioned above .


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Dear elizabeth, I am more optimistic because I believe that

''conscious minds'' can produce clear statement which truth

of falsity can be grasped. There is an short description for

this: ''facts are true statements''.

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Curious thinking. We have ''all great music we'd miss out on if they

didn't EXIST'' while the ''SOUL of the music EXIST in the music

itself''. Identity of any entity exist in itself. This way we don't need

to think about the question how properties are possible without

any bearer of the property. ''Properties on their own'' so to speak. 

I'm a music lover who grew up listening to music from the 60's and 70's, many from a handheld transistor radio. My parents owned a radio that sat on top of our fridge that played mostly one AM station on Sunday mornings and a record player that was supported in a 4 legged cabinet. I got my first (portable) record player for Christmas at 12 years old and with it Diana Ross and the Supremes Christmas Album (Which I still have unscratched) and a 45 from "My Fair Lady" now long lost. My first stereo (one of those record player/AM/FM contraptions) was bought at a pawn shop when I graduated from high school.

I say this because not everyone grew up listening to music with great sound quality. Even as adults, not every has the means (or desire) to own vinyl AND its CD duplicate to compare. I have more than a few dozen LP's and their CD counterpart. I love the convenience of CD. I ripped the LP's that have no CD counterpart to my computer with Audacity.

Not everyone has a passion to keep vinyl clean or listen to the (rare or many) clicks and pops they present or get up and flip it when one side is done or pay the price it takes to make vinyl sound better that CD. Another thing is with vinyl you HAVE to listen to every song, even if you don't like it. CD, you can skip what you don't like (probably a major reason why CD sells are bottoming out and streaming is so popular).

For me, the "soul" is in the music itself. Not how it's transported. Memories can be triggered by music no matter how its transported, vinyl, CD, cassette tape, reel to reel, streamed or live. I've experienced them all at some time or other. I don't insist that one is better than the other for anyone. I know what I like and I'm fine with others enjoying music how ever they like.

On another note, not all artists have their music on vinyl. Just think of all the great music we'd miss out on if they didn't exist.

The vices we had in our youth are almost forgotten memories that can be triggered by music.

My thesis is that the intensity of the memory is dependent on the quality and intensity of the music; the ultimate rig would bring back the memory associated with the music in life like detail.



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJPJ6SYQ5Fk


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJkxFhFRFDA
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she was a day tripper....
My kinda gal, Liz ;-) . I had one like you (she loved Lucinda Williams, Memphis Minnie, Dave Edmunds, and The Plimsouls---hip, man), then she got back into ’erb in her late-40’s, and it ruined her. I can’t stand being around potheads. No offense dudes!
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Black light posters, bongs, and "head shops"; where one was met by the sweet fragrance of incense; where those of one mind could debate the merits of various Turkish pipes; I remember it as if it was yesterday, with all of those black light posters lining the walls; these are visions incited by the music.


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cYwDMibGo
They made the gatefold cover of The Steve Miller Band's Children Of The Future album look great. Never liked strobe lights though; they made playing a fretted instrument on stage difficult!
Black light posters are way cool. 😳
There are now Black Light bulbs, shaped just like an incandescent. I'm gettin' one, but no acid ;-0 .
"Does anyone remember "Black Lights"; they made ladies legs glow in the dark when they wore certain kinds of stockings, what a scintillating sight."
I never noticed their legs. I was captivated by their bras! And anything washed in certain detergents. I still have my 4 footer. But not my bong.
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Nandric, you have stated my past philosophy. When you have lived as long as I have, along the way, you will discover that the most important aspects of your life can not be proven to even exist.



If high school education lack in subjects of philosophy

of science and logic then we get such contributions about ''the

soul'' as in this thread.



Ron, I'm a technician who is comfortable with a plethora of measuring instruments; I have discovered that they're useless when you get into the highest echelon of HEA. Although HEA is not cheap, the "highest echelon" does not mean megabuck components.

I am in the group of people who are driven by the desire to hear "the essence" of music in their listening room. Initially, I had SS. Since it had very high specifications, that appealed to me. One day it broke; that's when I decided to see what the fuss was about those ancient noisy tubes; after all, my SS was close to 0 distortion and noise, which the tubes could not match.

I was given a "loaner" CJ PV-10; it was noisy with bad tubes in one channel, but it reproduced music that could clearly be heard in spite of the noise and distortion.
Now there are tube components as quiet as SS; plus, they reproduce music as opposed to sounds.



I suppose everyone knows that motion pictures are no more than a series of still photographs. Eyes are different from ears; that fact has never bothered anyone, we still see the illusion of people in motion.

"Music", not sounds, but music, is much more complex. Music is about us, as living beings with an inner component that I call a "soul". Music resonates with that inner component, some musicians project that component; a rig that reproduces that component in a listening room is of the highest order; you wont be able to just walk in and get one off the shelf, you can't just throw money at it, and expect it to appear; you have to work for it.

Back to motion pictures as compared to audio; when audio is treated the same as motion pictures, we get the sound of music, but there is something missing; it's the emotional component I call "soul".

The meanings of words is their contribution to the meaning of

an sentence. Only (indicative) sentences can be true or

false. I.e. not words or terms. The so called ''correspondence''

theory of truth means that an sentence is true if it correspond

with the reality.  Sets, classes and properties means the same

in logic. Properties are not imaginable without some bearer of

the property while ''bearers'' can be seen as members of an

set or class. A set can consist of one member only: a set

with one member. Anyway words don't legislate about the

truth. Otherwise the vocabulary would be all we need to discover

the truth. If high school education lack in subjects of philosophy

of science and logic then we get such contributions about ''the

soul'' as in this thread.


I don’t know anything about digital files, but I agree with you that, while the best digital (MSB, Lampizator, etc.) has gotten very good and musically and sonically enjoyable, most high-analog offers a level of emotional involvement I personally do not hear from most high-end digital.   

No matter who the people are, or what the language, they will have a word for "soul"; from the Kalahari Desert to the Amazon Rain Forest, the people will have a word for soul; the essence of life in human beings.

When a person dies, their soul leaves the body; since it's weightless and invisible, some people claim that it doesn't exist; but there are many things which exist that we can't see.

I'm making a claim that I can prove better than you can disprove. I'm claiming that the soul of certain musical artists is captured on vinyl, and that my rig can reproduce that captured soul, to the extent that it seems as though the person is in the room.

Although there is a proclivity to associate the word "soul" with African American music, I'm using it in a universal sense to include any music that projects a palpable sense of life; specifically the life that the music portrays.

Bobbie Gentry's "Ode To Billie Joe" is just such a song; it projects a palpable sense of life in her neck of the woods; if you heard it on my rig, you would swear she was in the room.

Since soul is both invisible and weightless, how can you prove that her soul isn't in the room?


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZt5Q-u4crc


How about a little more soul in the common accepted use of the word;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJOX5tCd1qs


               

The ''if'' suggest an hypothetical statement. Hypothetical questions

need some research or experiment in order to get the answer.

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"into the soul of things"

Perspective....Words are Music...apparently poetry is okay (per the former posts)...yet

A woman who wins the Nobel Prize for Literature (2007)

"Prize motivation: "that epicist of the female experience, who with scepticism, fire and visionary power has subjected a divided civilisation to scrutiny."

Music to my ears and my soul. MY. 
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Shortly after we were born, there is a good possibility we were exposed to music.

Starts much earlier, Orpheus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3759965/


And here, post birth:

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2016/04/20/1603984113.full


"The Grass Is Singing" by Doris Lessing
If there is a God, why must we find him?
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Shortly after we were born, there is a good possibility we were exposed to music. What kind of music would depend on where we were born; someone born in the swamps of Louisiana would be exposed to a different genre than someone born in metropolitan Chicago.

After we discovered we could wiggle our toes, we heard music, and a beat that we could wiggle our toes to; we were really on to something. Naturally, that was the best music in the world, it resonated our tiny souls.

Now that you're an Audiophile, you can recreate that same music in your listening room with such an astounding degree of realism, that when it contains "soul" (that's the component in music that causes your heart to palpitate, and it makes you feel good) it resonates with your soul.

This genre of music was determined a long time ago, and although it varies from person to person, the subject of conversation here; is the ability of one's rig to project that emotional component of the music I call "soul"; which by the way can be in any genre of music; it could be "hill billy" soul, in which case you would want to stomp your feet, instead of tapping your toes, and I'm sure there is another name for this component in "hill-billy" vernacular, but a rose by any other name is still a rose.

I contend that vinyl, or master tape, projects this intensely personal element of music better than any other source. As a matter of fact, the cartridge is the only component in the chain that resonates with your personal soul, and it should be chosen with great care, that is specifically for this purpose. For these reasons, the cartridge is the most important element in the chain that reproduces music.

Geoffkait, what the world needs now is more poetry like this;

To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing,
To have all these things in our memories hoard,


I really like that picture, and I have memories of grass singing.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nmeiWp2OpU

Chakster, I have all of Ramsey Lewis's earlier recordings, but I haven't caught up to his later recordings; he's one of my favorite artists, and I'll get that one.

''To find...God''. Peter is hunting unicorns in Afrika. He will catch

one if he find one.

Be it sight, sound, the smell, the touch.
There's something,
Inside that we need so much,
The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound,
Or the strength of an Oak with roots deep in the ground.
The wonder of flowers, to be covered, and then to burst up,
Thru tarmack, to the sun again,
Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing,
To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing,
To have all these things in our memories hoard,
And to use them,
To help us,
To find...
God...
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@orpheus10 nice tune

I always feel like i am on the stage with these guys when i listen to original japanese pressing of Ramsey Lewis Trio, this tune is mind blowing. The US press is cheap as chips and must be nice too, but i only have Japanese press with absolutely superb sound quality.

Nandric,  I don't have the slightest clue as to what you're talking about; it might be related to "Plutonian Physics"; that pertains to the laws of physics as they operate on that planet; stuff could fall up instead of down.

I was discussing "perception" of the sound stage in HEA, which is based on "The Propagation of Sound Waves"; that's physics on this planet, and if you could see the sound waves you would know that it's real. The common name for this phenomenon is "room treatment".


Beyond the sound of things, and into the soul of things, describes my perception of specific pieces of music that project a living presence if you have HEA and a room that is capable of "Audio Holography"; that's an invisible audio image that puts the artists in your listen room on a 3D sound stage.

When "high end salons" existed, one could walk in and hear this phenomenon for themselves. Since that's no longer the case, there are many who don't believe such a thing exists; primarily because they have been unable to achieve it.

Although this phenomenon makes what I'm discussing more palpable, you can experience the "soul" of the music I have chosen on a good "mid-fi" rig.


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhgUUe5czxc


Since you're from Europe, I realize it's quite possible that you will not be able to perceive the "Soul" in this tune, although it's got plenty plenty soul; but "unseen" is the nature of soul.


Enjoy; "Beyond the sound of things, and into the soul of things."


''Ascribing properties to not existing entity is curious business''.

''Not so'' according to 'super natural' orpheus. That is to say

that the question about existence is not relevant.

We in Europe spend billions for the so called Cern large collider

in order to answer the question about existence of Higgs particle.

All physicist knew what this particle means for the theory but

nobody knew if this particle exist. Without this particle the

physics would be different.

We could save enormous amount of money by following orpheus

opinion that existence is question of belief.  

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David, having been in the military, I believe anything you tell me in regard to science.

Prof, we're on the same page; "


"I’m just pointing out that it’s a leap to go from our own personal preference to "therefore the technology itself is incapable of X."The other technology is fully capable of X for many other people."


What I posted went beyond audio in a vacuum; my life experiences were interwoven, but they were triggered by the LP and not the Hi-Res drawdown. Of course someone else would have to participate in order to consider that post valid.

The title of this thread is about what makes you a human being; different from all other beings before you, and all of those who will go after you.

A very long time ago, an old man who had become a good friend was retiring; he told me, "Orpheus, you gotta get what you can, when you can, while you can, cause when you get my age, you "Kan't", and the only things you will remember, is what you didn't get."

That was ages ago, but to this very day, every word he spoke rings true.

When I was young, life was offered up like a banquet every day, "A little of this, a little of that, and don't forget a dab of the other thing."

That's the way life went for many years, until one day I looked up and I was old. Now my life is memories of the life I lived that are incited by HEA. Consequently, it's not easy to tell whether or not it's the memory or the music.


being transported
no lack of SOUL
Pegasus
smiling faces
Ascribing properties to nonexistent entities
But I also enjoy digital.
transformation... moved into the "supernatural realm"
going all woo-woo

Cat Food For Thought...A Plethora of Quantum States....Yes, it does apply. : )

From: NATURE PHOTONICS | VOL 13 | FEBRUARY 2019 | 110–115 |

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41566-018-0339-5.epdf?referrer_access_token=-D0VQxMpucTVrsmcBRgzXdR...
orpheus,

I know you weren’t going all woo-woo and were reporting a real experience. I’ve compared some of my best digital albums with their vinyl counterpart, and preferred the vinyl.

And of course a different technology can result in a different sound.

I’m just pointing out that it’s a leap to go from our own personal preference to "therefore the technology itself is incapable of X."The other technology is fully capable of X for many other people.

Prof, my language would seem to indicate that I have moved into the "supernatural realm"; however, my experience was, and still is what it is, in this time and dimension.

If I knew before hand, which was HI-RES download, and which was LP, that would give no credence to my statement, but I didn't.

These things happen, that can't rationally be explained, when you get to the very end game of HEA.

I'm not trying to give anybody a snow job, I've paid 30 years of my life to get where I am. If you notice, I did not mention money, because that's secondary; it was whatever it took.

I enjoy digital every bit as much as you; I've just taken it to a higher level by placing it in the "analog realm" through the use of a reel.

All innuendos aside, I stick CD's in a player and listen to them when I'm in a hurry, and they sound very good.






It’s the playback system that’s messed up. We’ve already been over all that. We’ve known it for at least thirty years. Its not rocket science. 🚀 It’s also why digitally remastered cassettes sound so uh, analog.

Let us examine the transformation of the music as it goes from the CD player, into the reel input amp, into the recording heads that reorient magnetic particles on tape. Once this is done, the playback of the tape is pure "analog"; there is no "digitalis" or any of the other terms that are used to describe CD.

The only way I can tell the difference between LP and CD is by record noise. CD's that are inherently bad don't get recorded; this did occur in the beginning.

"Coloration" or transformation; I have a problem with the word coloration, I choose the difference in the sound of the CD after "Transformation".
orpheus

I also luxuriate in the sound of good vinyl at home. And believe me I can write swooning words about the experience as well...as I often have.


But I also enjoy digital.

A Hi-Res download is from the Master-Tape, and should be close to identical. What I spoke of was almost ethereal; the sound was transferred on the Hi-Res, but not the emotional impact of the music; the music was stripped of it’s emotional soul during the transfer.
With the right rig, in addition to the audio, there is an emotional component that is received in the sub-conscious which triggers all the memories, and experiences surrounding the music that is generated by the LP, that’s not generated by the Hi-Res.


The problem I have with this type of talk is that it *appears* you are moving from your own subjective preference to a more objective claim, even if nebulous, that the digital version did not capture the "soul-moving" aspects of the music.

But that’s your own response; not necessarily the response of other people. Massive numbers of people find themselves utterly moved by digitized music, and plenty of audiophiles would completely disagree insofar as they would be moved by the same digital digital music files that failed to move you.

I’ve sat beside other audiophiles swooning over the sound or the music through a system that utterly failed to move me, and visa versa.

As I’ve mentioned before, this is common in our audiophile world to have a strong personal emotional reaction or attachment to the way some equipment delivers sound, but then leverage that to more dubious claims about certain technology itself being "unable to capture or transmit" the moving or natural essence of the music, while they are really just talking about their own opinion, not some objective fact about the technology.