Better Records White Hot Stampers: Now the Story Can Be Told!

Good info, thanks. Also considering Origin Live Sovereign. Mark Baker did an impressive job with my Conqueror arm, figure he probably knows turntables? 😉

Another one sort of like that, Kind of Blue, a search turned up the fact almost all the records and CDs out there are from a tape that was played on a deck with the wrong pinch roller that inadvertently changed the speed and pitch. Everyone is so used to it, but the demo I heard the correct speed remaster did sound better. 

What really intrigues me though is the Townshend Rock Elite. Don't suppose you happen to know where I can get my hands on a Rock?

Probably wish this one had gone ignored, but it did not. This is the Tea for the Tillerman that is according to bdp24, "beyond any question superior to any and all other pressings":

https://ontherecord.co/2018/04/29/this-is-your-idea-of-analog-2/

I’m afraid we have some bad news. [This was written back in 2011 when the record came out so it’s hard to imagine that what I am about to say is news to anyone at this stage of the game.] Regrettably we must inform you that the 2011 edition of Tea for the Tillerman pressed by Analogue Productions on Heavy Vinyl doesn’t sound very good. We know you were all hoping for the best. We also know that you must be very disappointed to hear this unwelcome news.

But the record is what it is, and what it is is not very good. Its specific shortcomings are many and will be considered in at length in our review below.

In fairness to bdp24 this may just be another case of MDS, he never did say he personally has heard either the AP or a WHS- or indeed any copy of any version. Would hate to be the one trying to insist it is the best- or even any good at all - after reading this review.

Actually all I'm saying is you're stealing the guys trademark, calling your records hot stampers. They're not. 

No offense, but you're conflating a trademarked and graded product "Hot Stamper" with records you have that sound good. I have been down this road, and all I can say, if you really do have copies that good you would be selling like Tom, because they are worth a pile of money. This is like the DIY cable guys who pretend to have turned $150 worth of parts into a $2500 cable. Why then are you telling us? Prove it. Go sell em.  

I got sucked into that con one time, a guy convinced me he knows what is Hot Stamper quality because he sold some to Tom. So hoping for a deal I bought one of his, what you would call hot stamper. I have lots of records that good. I have maybe one or two that are as good as a Hot, let alone White Hot. Zero White Hot. 

As for reissues, I once sent Tom a MoFi just so he could get some laughs with his staff. A more awful record I never heard in my life. And no, I am not saying they are all that bad. Sheesh!

There is another issue and I can only be blunt about it, both your ears and your system have to be up to it. We are not talking about ticks and pops. A lot of White Hots are actually pretty noisy. As Tom says repeatedly all over the site, the best sounding copy isn't always the quietest. I have lots of quieter pressings. I have none better sounding. When you get to where you can hear it you will know.

When your system improves- as hopefully it will over the years- I think the difference between your better than average pressings and your genuine Hot Stampers will grow increasingly clear.

There are so many layers to this, it is an almost unbelievably complex subject. Like for example the last few Super Hot Stampers I got, Sinatra-Basie, Sting Dream of the Blue Turtle, Sinatra Songs for Swinging Lovers. All exceptional records but it would be hard to name three so different sounding!  

Sinatra-Basie is the quintessential audiophile demo disc. Everything is there from the imaging to the incredible presence and it is so perfect one of the last guys to hear it said it was the best he ever heard. Sting has the same incredible detail and presence but is recessed back so far it is like not even the same system. Sinatra Swinging his voice is huge, the space he is in cavernous, almost like it has some reverb going on. 

These are the huge mega-differences between them. On that level they are very different. On another level though, the ability to hear and discern incredibly fine detail deep into the recording, on that level they are all exceptional. This is the realm where Hot Stampers live.  

They are not at all what most expect. They certainly are not what I expected. 

The great thing about it is Tom Port is a real music lover and an audiophile's audiophile. He knows these records like the back of his hand. What I really want are some more music and recordings like Sinatra-Basie. I bet he knows right where they are.

So did you return it?

Yes clean records sound better. Yes demag works. No the Walker is not permanent. No Tom does not turn records into Hot Stampers by cleaning and waving a Talisman over them.

He even says on his site these are things they do just before playing one. This is all just good housekeeping, like having the system thoroughly warmed up.

Why is it people who never tried and so don't know insist on acting as if they do? I will let you in on the secret. Tom said it's okay: Get one, listen to it. Then come back and let us know. 

Reissues of any price then, if it makes you feel any better. Point is this is where the sound quality is at. Hot Stampers. Not reissues. 

Don't need no White Hot to trounce MoFi. Don't need Super Hot. Regular old Hot will do the job just fine. White Hot and you will not be comparing, you will be shaking your head in disbelief.

Not only that, which is all true, but Tom told me his prices are actually lower today than years ago. Because the time and effort required to sift through the dreck and find the diamond hasn't changed. But his volume has gone up to where he can afford to run it more efficiently now, and so he has been able to lower his prices. It just doesn't seem that way to anyone looking at it today, but he tells me they were a lot higher 10-15 years ago. 

Even at these high prices the sought after copies can go fast. I was looking nearly every day for Year of the Cat. When I saw it and got all excited and went to buy, it was already sold!  

When I let Tom know, that is when I really started learning. There are people all over the place who know Tom will pay top dollar for an excellent copy. I even got to know one guy who claims to have sold a Hot Stamper this way. Well, I bought one from him, supposedly Hot Stamper level, and let me tell you, not even. Good copy, yes. Much better than average. But Hot Stampers are not merely much better than average. The best of them, White Hot, are almost like defy the laws of physics they are so good.  

Took a good 6 months for him to get enough YOTC for a shoot-out. Then when he told me he was going to do it, I got all excited and started bugging him. Not so fast. It was more than a week by the time he was done and had them sorted and ready to list.  

These things are not cheap. Even Tom himself jokes about how extravagantly expensive they are. But at least with these, unlike so many expensive reissues, you really do get the sound quality you pay for.

Glimmer? You must have forgot to take your arc welding helmet off again. Flip it up, what you call a glimmer is a Fox Searchlight beacon of enlightenment that can be seen around the world.

Not a week goes by I don’t get multiple PM requests for advice, and many times with a little "sure enjoy your posts" or "don’t let the haters get you down" or "yours are the most informative on the site" thrown in.

For some strange reason the same people who earned their way onto the Hateful18 list (and let me check, yes, you are on there!) never seem to understand it is precisely their constantly off-topic demeaning blather that got them there in the first place. Like what you did just now. You in your own words say I am informative and concise, yet even my best post is to you nothing more than an opportunity to throw yet another insult my way.

Shame on you, buddy. Not me. Shame on you.

Tom had Aqualung last year, a copy he raved about saying it was so good he needed another category above White Hot. Went on and on describing in detail making it sound so awesome I was tempted to fork over the astronomical $600 or whatever it was just to hear for myself- and I don't even know what is on it other than the one title track!  

Probably that number freaks people out. But he sold it, and the big titles bring even more. The craziest part is he told me his prices are LOWER now than they used to be! Because his business has GROWN he is able to do so much more volume and that has allowed him to lower prices a lot.  

Yeah, totally agree, it is no comparison. I have several now, and it is really something. Not like I can't enjoy all my other records any more. But a White Hot is just really special.

Really? Where?

Right. The difference is huge. The Year of the Cat MoFi I had recently was so awful I sent it to Tom for him and the boys to get a good laugh out of it. There's a Pink Floyd DSOTM remaster I bought many years ago that one day I decided to pull out and even though it had been MANY YEARS and my system had changed dramatically over that time still within a minute or so my skin is crawling thinking this cannot be right. Where is the detail? Dynamics? This thing sucks! 

So I pulled out one of my old copies and sure enough, night and day. Neil Diamond Taproot Manuscript, my original copy is quite good, no one would ever say there is anything wrong with it, not at all. But compare to my Super Hot copy, night and day! 

This is like my Fleetwood Mac Rumours, where the worst of my four copies is the Nautilus Half Speed Mastered audiophile pressing! The original vintage vinyl is better. The 45RPM reissue is a little bit better still. But then you hear the White Hot, no contest, the others are not even in the same league! The question is not "Is it better?" The question is, "How can it be SO MUCH BETTER?!?!?!?!!"  

I WISH I could get some of these for less. Tried one guy who swore up and down he had Hot Stamper level quality. Nope. Not even. Oh well. They are out there, of course. When you get one, or even if you think you have one, celebrate! Celebrate! Dance to the music! One is the loneliest number. Etc.

Nothing like that on my copy. Walking on a Thin Line has a great bass line, all the rest is average, not great, not bad, just average. Right on par with Alan Parsons Tales of Mystery and Imagination, not as good as Dream Weaver. I do have lots of really fine sounding pressings. What this goes to show is what I have been saying, tremendous variability, not everyone will hear tremendous improvement from a Hot Stamper compared to every record they have. This is very much a thinking audiophile's game. 

Maybe the "comeback" wouldn’t be so "surprising" if the "journalist" would take his eyes off his canned narrative and take a look at actual, you know, history. Then it would be clear analog is the golden age, today as much as ever. Analog was the gold standard for over 100 years before the CD. Then the whole time since it remained the gold standard in terms of sound quality. Today more than ever. All that happened was we had this flash in the pan called digital, that promised what it could not deliver: perfect sound forever.

Masses of people still care more for convenient noise and are unwilling to put out the minimal effort required to play a record. But the ones who are willing to do even a little quickly realize there never was any there there with digital. So it isn’t really surprising at all. Heck people like Fremer and me saw this coming 40 years ago. It just always takes a while for the masses to catch up with the leaders.

Far as I know ALL purchases have the same 100% risk free guarantee. 

When it comes to resale value I told Tom if he ever figures out how to put a laser hologram on the vinyl so subsequent buyers know it is genuine then resale values will grow and so will his business.   

But that is just my idea. Bottom line, I have learned over the years there's so many details of running a business we can't even know, but the guy actually running it has been dealing with them since day one, and armchair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen. Heck if I put my mind to it I could probably make a pretty good case for why Mercedes should fire Hamilton and hire me. Even though I won't fit in the car, but my backseat driving skills are world class!

Tubes are better, so if you prefer better sound then it is expected to eventually land on tubes. The same goes for recordings. One of the more common comments on Better-records.com is the "tubey magic" of some recordings. They don't all have it to the same high degree but when they do, wow!

puppyt:

I have two questions for @millercarbon:

1. How do you clean your records and what equipment do you use?

I use the Walker Enzyme 4step -
1. Normal detergent type wash.
2. Walker Enzyme wash.
3-4. Rinse, rinse.

This was recommended to me by Tom Port. This is what he uses on all his records. Main difference being he uses a very expensive RCM while mine are by hand. I do use a VPI 16.5 but only to suck off the final 2 rinses. The process I use does include a rinse between the washes but it isn’t really a true rinse just tap water so I don’t count that. Also wipe partially dry with a clean towel after each of the first two steps.

Before this I used Disc Doctor. Walker is quite a bit better and if I am honest probably accounts for a fair amount of the difference between a Hot Stamper and any normal audiophiles good clean record. Nowhere near to what some have claimed, that this is all it is, but it is there.

The Walker system is expensive if you buy the full kit. Refills are much cheaper. So I bought the refills, use my own brushes, use my own distilled water, and get virtually all the same results as the kit for a fraction of the price. I am way more frugal than anyone would ever expect of a guy willing to spend $400 on a record. I will spend- but only when I have to, and only when it’s worth it.

2. You’ve mentioned Raven Audio and I am very intrigued by that company. I have a Prima Luna Dialogue HP Premium integrated that I have really enjoyed. Recognizing that Prima Luna is Chinese made while Raven is U.S. made, what are some of the other differences between comparable models from each company? I would prefer to buy U.S. made but that factor alone is not enough for me to switch. Would love to hear your thoughts and those of others.

Without hearing them side by side it is hard to say exactly how they differ. I can tell you though I do not prefer Raven simply because they are made in Texas!

There is a tendency when looking at tube amps to focus on the tubes. Everyone does it. Until you mod a few and then gradually over time determine what really sets them apart is the transformers. The one thing nobody can do anything about and yet it is the beating heart of a tube amp. I don’t know for sure about PL but would bet you a bundle theirs are made in China. The Raven on the other hand are built here in the USA and if you watch the video you can see the look on Dave Thomas’s face when he talks about how this was the one thing he knew they had to do was use those transformers.

So that’s one. Here by the way is the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcd76DZmbdY I will summarize a few of the high points.

Next to transformers we have connections. Amps made in China are hand soldered. Hand soldering is a skill. It looks simple but it takes great skill to perform a quality solder connection. There’s a point, if not this video then another, where Dave talks about the different levels of quality and what it costs at each level. The really high quality work is more expensive even in China.

Then there is the solder used. People prefer silver solder because of the sound. But consider what this means- even solder has a sound! Use the same solder everywhere and this sound imparts to the component. So Raven uses silver solder, but different types, not all the same solder throughout the amp.

Same for resistors. They use all the same top brands as everyone including PL. Very good high quality resistors. That each impart their own sonic signature. Dave has found by listening that using the same brand resistor three times in a circuit begins to color the sound. So he mixes them up.

At this point I have to ask, have you ever even heard a manufacturer of anything talk about their obsession with sound quality and going into such detail? I know from talking to Keith Herron and some others that it is done. Not saying Dave Thompson is the only one on planet Earth doing this. Which one of the haters will leap at in an instant. Not saying that at all. Just pointing this out as something I consider highly relevant in deciding what to buy.

We’re talking tube amps here so we have to talk tubes. Dave Thompson has socked away a huge collection of very high quality NOS tubes. He is the tube equivalent of a vintner with the finest wines from all over the world stashed down in his cellar. Listen to the part of the video where he talks about how they thought it would be one tube but listening tests led them to select another. Compare to PL where they treat tubes as totally interchangeable.

That right there is a key difference. I’m no amp designer but I know enough to understand there are tradeoffs in everything. You build an amp to allow plugging in any tube any condition anywhere you pretty much automatically build an amp that is not optimized for any tube any condition any time. Raven does make the Osprey for people who want to try tube rolling - and with Dave’s extensive selection you will not be shooting in the dark but with his sage guidance. The Osprey can be user-modified to run a lot of different tubes, something Dave can help you do over the phone.

What else? Powder coating. Hard to tell on video but those who have seen them in person are impressed.

Maybe one of the biggest reasons I would go with Raven is I know who I’m dealing with: Dave Thompson. No it is not exactly a one man show but basically it is Dave Thompson. Who is PL? Does anyone even know? Are they Belgian? Chinese? Kevin Deal? Face it, PL is a multi-national corporation with so many layers you never will know.

So like I said before, I do an awful lot of research and due diligence before putting my hard earned dollars on the line.

Not asking anyone to switch. I myself have a Melody, same deal, designed in Australia, made in China. Bought 15 years ago, before the narrative was totally discredited. Now fortunately there’s ample reasons of pure sound and build quality to choose Raven. Being made right here in the USA is just the icing on the cake.

Broke protocol and read a post and so let me offer my condolences, and compliments, having to go to all that trouble only to wind up corroborating every single thing I have been saying. Sometimes darn near word for word. Way to go, guppy. 

I have that one Frank. Not the Hot Stamper, but even a regular copy is as you say pretty spectacular. The one you linked to "with issues" if you read the detail it is not much of an issue, just some light ticks. Otherwise, double-LP, A++, would be a lot more. 

The site is chock full of info but to me it seems to be sort of scattered around. Tom sent me a link to a page I will probably be using a lot going forward. It's a list of "Well recorded albums that should be more popular with audiophiles" which is different than a Top 100 (which he also has) in that these are both well recorded and a little less popular, and so a little less expensive. If you can call anything on his site less expensive- it is a very relative term! 

I have found there is a lot of stuff like strings, brass, sax, in other words classical, jazz, big band, that I never cared for simply because they were so poorly recorded. My Super Hot Stamper of Sinatra-Basie was a revelation. Never ever in my life dreamed sax and stuff could sound so tonally correct, warm, and real! There's a flute- OMG it actually sounds like a real flute! With all the dynamics and everything! 

So when I look at this list and see Sinatra I Remember Tommy, and from Tom's comments this is an even better recording than Sinatra-Basie, well I want that record! Eventually. These things are expensive. Pick and choose. Not for everyone. Etc. Etc.

The crescendo is all the biggest donkeys on the site braying together.

banned.....

Quick Frank, while you still have checks left, write one to yourself.

Okay DS, your story checks out. Well the part about buying it anyway. Much to my surprise. Now if you can tell how awesome it is I will be even more surprised. But if not, well then boy do I have a surprise for you all!

Right. Okay. So, which one? What did you buy?

Yes inna, it is a lot of work. And then even after finding something way better than average you listen to A+++ and your jaw drops. The range of quality between pressings is that big.

oregonpapa-

Pristine "White Hot" copies are rare birds. I’ve heard from a reliable source that Tom goes through as many as forty to fifty copies sometimes in order to find one that is suitable to be sold on his site.

I personally have over 5000 vinyl records. How many super White Hot Stamper copies do I have? A few ... that’s it. Oh, I have many great-sounding records, but only a few that I could call A+++ stampers as Tom Port sells.

Frank

Right. And even those few may not be. Remember that guy you hooked me up with? Easily the most seriously devoted record bin diver type I ever met. First thing he said, near impossible to find a really good YOTC. Nevermind White Hot. Merely really good.

A while later he called saying he found a Hot Stamper worthy Steve Miller Book of Dreams. Wanted a lot for it, but less than a Hot Stamper, way less than a Super Hot Stamper, and way way way less than a White Hot Stamper.

So I decided to take a chance. And let’s be honest, it does sound better than my random copy of Steve Miller Fly Like An Eagle. Not hugely better. Not Hot Stamper better, but better. Good enough I am not about to complain. It feels silly having to explain this, but some of the kids around here need to hear it: this is an accurate assessment. When the accurate assessment is positive you do not become a fanboy. When the accurate assessment is negative you do not become a hater. I tell it like it is, and let the chips fall where they may.

And again, this is not to pick on him. Just trying to set some people straight. Because even this accomplished bin diver, who has found records good enough Tom Port bought them, even this guy who represented to me this was Hot Stamper quality, this copy is just not there. Not even close.

This is the hard part to get across to people. We can try and explain it in math terms, probabilities. Then some yahoo genius can’t find his way out of a wet paper bag thinks that means they are everywhere. They are not everywhere. Another brilliant midwit with a record that doesn’t skip and sounds slightly better than all his other crap thinks that means all his not crappy crap is Hot Stamper level.

In truth? Not even. But the only way to really understand is to pay the price, play the record, and listen. Instead it’s all, "I learn through the mouth by talking."

Not you Frank. Just using your example as a launch pad for blasting off on the wanna bees posting above.

bdp24-

It is arguable that every audiophile-quality LP is a White Hot Stamper .....

Not even mentioned....

Is that you never bought or heard one, and so are as a matter of fact blathering pure ad copy and amply embellished imaginings. Am I right? Tell me I'm not right. Or if I am wrong then which ones did you buy? The answer is none, right? Right?

I am gonna say none. I am gonna say so certain it is none not gonna wait. Will take my lumps if proven wrong. Which I won't be.

Do you honestly think you said one thing we don't already know? For damn sure I have heard it all before. That is the whole point of the thread. To let people know and make them aware the ad copy is just that: ad copy! 

The stories are nice- but they are just that: stories! Not saying the stories are lies. Not saying they didn't take every care, do their best to get it right. Bought a lot of those records myself. I'm sure they did do everything they say they did. That is not the question.

Here's the rub: we are not talking about who did what. We are talking about how it sounds! For all your wordy words of regurgitated ad copy the sad fact is you have no way of knowing until you listen! If you have not listened then you just don't know. Too late now to edit your post. So what you should do, copy it, remove it, and paste into a new post this time with: "Of course I have never heard one and so have no idea what I am talking about BUT.." and then continue on with your uninformed opinion piece.

Could you do that for me please?

Thank you.

Fremer is right, as far as he goes. The way I think of those kind of hot wax stamper things is, you can use it to avoid buying a whole lot of crap that may have come off a crap stamper. A crap stamper will stamp crap from the first pressing until forever. But a really good stamper, one where everything was done right, that still does not guarantee every record pressed is magically A+++ level sound quality. I bet even if you somehow had the first hundred or thousand or whatever copies pressed, even that would be no guarantee. It might well be that the first really good A+++ copy is not #1 or #32 or even #576 but #2389 off that stamper. Might be, then again might not. Point is we just don't know. Would have to be there playing them as they come off in order to know. Never happen. Certainly not gonna happen now, 50 years after the fact. So all we can do is play, listen, evaluate, choose.  

Yeah it is pretty cool. I was just over at Mike Lavigne's place the other night. Mike has this vast collection of recordings. Some of em on multiple records AND also on tape! One record, he was telling me how the original sounds better than the later reissue because even though the reissue was made with much greater care and attention to detail it was made from a tape that was much older and tape degrades just sitting there not even being played. Records, everyone loves to complain about surface noise but one thing about a record, it does not degrade just sitting there.

Look, when the entire human race was sending the first Voyager spacecraft out and knew it would ultimately one day be the first thing to leave the Solar system and who knows maybe encounter extraterrestrial life, and we wanted to communicate, how did we do it? Put a record on it. Because Carl Sagan knew it would not degrade, and anyone anywhere could play it. Cool as cool can be.

pgueeze- Don't wait, you WILL regret it! The one I saw 6 months ago was only listed a couple days and when I saw it, sold! Then 6 months goes by and NOTHING! Mine is A+++ across both sides. The one listed now is very close to that. I have some just like it, A+++ on one side, A++ and a half on the other. You will never know. But that slight half a + lowers the price considerably! Mine cost $400. This one only $250! Very close, for a lot less.

The smooth, rich, deep detail, layers and layers, you won't believe. MoFi is pathetic. Parsons created one of the great recordings of all time. But you will never know it till you hear it.

pguezze, check it out, Super Hot Year of the Cat on Better-Records.com right now!

Picasso, Van Gogh, whatever. Wasn't even Starry Night. The Night Cafe. Like it matters. Leave it to an audiophile to go off topic just to show off and get a dig in. Even when they agree, even when it detracts from the point they're trying to make, just got to show off and get the dig in. So mind-numbingly boringly repetitious. 

Tom said get ready to be slashed to death. Then said pleasantly surprised it hasn't degenerated quite as fast or as much as usual. 

He's right. First time I brought this up it was something like 99 to 1 insults and arguments. This time several here have bought them, heard them, and agree. Based on my personal experience there's way more who agree than are willing to post about it and endure the barrage of bullying blowhards. Too bad about the bozo's but the good news is, they don't seem to be able to stop the good news getting out.

Ahh, it doesn't work that way. The hot wax markings you're talking about are the same for every single one of the hundreds of thousands, or maybe even millions, pressed off that stamper. If finding a Hot Stamper was that easy there would be no need for Tom.   

This is not the case. My copy of Rumours is exactly the same as my Hot Stamper, right down to the hot wax. The sound however is nowhere near the same. 

This comes up over and over again. I've explained it at least twice now in this thread alone. Tom has explained some more on his site. Sadly, even people who read these comments ignore the information and repeat the false narrative. You cannot find a good sounding record merely by looking at it. Only by playing can you tell.

Now as for your finding a really good sounding copy, good luck. I became a Better-Records.com "Good Customer" by letting everyone know how great they are. Someone came back and posted that they bought one based on my review, and they agree it is everything I said it was. Tom saw that and said, "Anything I can do for you?" This all happened around the time I was watching his site daily for Year of the Cat. So I said, can you find me a YOTC?

What he said, That's a hard one. Not a lot of good sounding copies out there. Don't come up that often. Might take a while.

Wound up taking a good 6 months, at least. 

So those are your options: search record stores until finally convincing yourself the least crappy one is good (what most do), visit better-records.com at least twice a day using search (I recommend bookmark the Al Stewart search) and if you see one do not hesitate, just buy it immediately! Or devote 3 to 5 hours a day posting millercarbonesque level commentary and see where that takes you.

I would go with checking the website regularly. Search around on it, all kinds of great info, and lots of other great records too.

mglik-

Doug Sax was one of the greatest mastering engineers in history.
In the mid ‘90s I almost bought Sheffield Labs and had the pleasure of being close to Doug and Lincoln. Speaking of Doug’s gear at The Mastering Lab in Hollywood, one day he opened up his control panels to show me how they were full of tubes!
His Wikipedia page has all of his hundreds of mastered albums.

Almost missed this: You almost bought Sheffield Labs??! You are hereby officially invited to take up as much of my thread as you wish expanding on that comment!

One of my most treasured recordings, Michael Ruff, Speaking in Melodies, is a Sheffield. Live studio recording, some of it direct to two-track, one of the most "you are there" sounds around. Janis Ian, Breaking Silence, the audiophile classic demo disc has a big section of small print on the back listing all the care taken, that it is all tubes, and of course "mastered by Doug Sax at The Mastering Lab on all tube electronics." There’s even a bit in there somewhere about the tube mic used on Janis Ian.

Could this be a gauge for Better-Records buys?

For sure it is a gauge of some kind. Thing of it is, the chain of events and components that runs from the performer to the listener is way longer and with way more links than most of us know. Maybe more than we can know.

Here, for example, are some of the liner notes from Breaking Silence:

Tracks were recorded at Nightingale Studio on a Studer 820, 24-track machine, 30ips, non-Dolby, at the elevation of +6/250nu using Ampex 499 tape.
Included among the mics used on the recording dates were: Nuemann M-49, AKG C-12, Telefunken 251, Sheffield C-9, and a custom built tube direct box on the bass. Janis’ vocal was recorded using a Telefunken U-47 and a Mastering Lab mic preamp, linked with series-one Monster Cable direct to the back of the Multi-track machine with no EQ or Limiting.

The album was mixed at Bill Schnee Studio to an Ampex ATR 1/2" machine, at 30ips, non-Dolby, at the elevation of +3/250nu on Ampex 499 tape. The reverb on the album was an EMT tube plate used along with natural room sounds captured in the recording. During the mixing of the album, "Some People’s Lives" was recorded direct to two-track using the same vocal chain as above and Telefunken 251’s on the piano. Take number two was used as the album cut.

The album was mixed using Mastering Labs modified Tannoy SGM-10’s powered by Sherwood Sax, monoblock tube amps.

Okay. So that is just to give everyone some idea all the many links in the chain. Just a few of em anyway.

And think of it, all we have at this point is a master tape. We say "master tape" like it’s nothing. But look what goes into producing it! All the above details amount to is the tip of the iceberg!

The darn thing still needs to be pressed into albums! A process that itself is every bit as technically challenging as recording and mastering. All so we can drag a needle through it, something Peter Ledermann says, "This should not work!"

Now the thing is, most of us have at one time or another noticed technical bits like the above on various audiophile recordings. How many have ever seen similar details describing the cutting lathe, mother, stamper, etc? Anyone? Beuller?

Not talking about in general. We all know in general. Just like we all know in general they record, mix, master. We know they cut wax on a lathe, stamp out records. Where have you ever seen an album list the exact equipment used? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP0mQeLWCCo

So yeah, like I said, a gauge of sorts. Just as it is possible to have a great sounding system with not so great speakers- resting on a foundation of outstanding upstream components- it is possible to have a not so good pressing sound great simply because it is the last link in an unusually strong recording chain.

Full orchestra is amazing. Especially White Hot Tchaikovsky. Only other thing like it is Mike Lavigne's. I'll be headed there tomorrow.

My pleasure. Really wish you could hear it. Not as killer quiet as Patricia Barber 1Step. Not as dreamy liquid as Jennifer Warnes The Well 45. Yet in many ways better than either of em. And those are some mighty fine records. Tom Port coined the term, tubey magic. Or if he didn’t coin it, at least uses it a lot to describe a sound that is crisp and clean, yet full and warm, in equal measure. This record is a prime example of tubey magic.

So now, the record itself. Visually perfect. Records are physical things and leave lots of little clues. Many times putting a record on the platter the spindle hits the label and this will leave little pressure tracks spiraling in towards the spindle. Not a one of those. Then just sliding in and out, the paper label rubs against the paper sleeve and this sort of polishes the label. No hint of that. This record has the distinct appearance of having never been played.

Certainly this is not the case. Tom played it once, at the very least. Just saying, it looks remarkably fresh and new.

The first little bit of each side is a little noisy. The rest has what I would call fairly normal surface noise- exactly as described before I bought it.  

Been trying to get Tom on the phone to talk about this, no luck so far. Oh well. Here we go anyway.  

First I want to say, the copy I had sounded just fine. Could play it for anyone, they would be impressed. In no way, shape or form would anyone ever consider it a poor copy. I would call it average, most would call it good. None would call it bad.

Okay, with that out of the way. The first thing I notice with the White Hot Stamper, everything is much more palpably present and floating with huge vast amounts of air around it. When strings come in they are rich and vibrant, so much so they make what was on the other copy seem strident, thin and screechy. Just a huge difference.  

It is playing at the usual volume, but the sound is so much more clean and clear it makes me want to turn it up. Now I know the usual puppets eager to argue will say See! It needs to be turned up! No. It does not need to be turned up. It makes me WANT to turn it up. When I do turn it up, it sounds not just better, it sounds crazy better!

Thank God for Moabs.  

Last two tracks I really do turn it up and good thing too when the lead guitar comes in on Year of the Cat it is soaring electric high above so clean and clear and I'm thinking what could be better and Parsons and Stewart have thought of that, it's called a saxophone and damn if it doesn't pack even more energy than the lead guitar solo!

Anyone ever wonders why Alan Parsons earned so much respect, one listen to what I just heard and you will know. Waited a good 6 months for this. Cost a small fortune. Worth every minute. Worth ever penny.

It's cute the way you kids think. Like toddlers stacking blocks of wood, imagining it's the Empire State Building. 

Five minutes and even the worst listener will understand just how far off you are. Like, look. I went to see Picasso. I brought home the refrigerator magnet of Starry Night. No matter how much I want to believe, it's just not the same.

But you go on. Tell yourselves you found oil on canvas. Anyone can see it's crayon on paper. But you go on. I'm getting a kick out of it. Seriously. Cracks me up. 

Represent 😂😂😂

I just had a religious experience.

And putting it away I noticed it still has the original sticker: Sam Goody $2.99.

First impression, gotta say, the cover is mint. Like time machine mint. That thin shrink wrap plastic records used to come in? Really meticulous types would carefully cut along the opening with a razor blade so as to preserve that plastic? Even though, unless you were very careful, it would get torn just in the normal back and forth of playing? Well whoever had this was so careful it is still perfectly cut just along the opening.

Not the only one like this either. Rumours was like this, except that one the plastic had been torn just a little. Not all are like this. Most are just really impressively crisp and mint. This kind of gets pushed to the side in all the talk about sound quality. They also come complete with the original inner sleeve.  

Tom packages these in a way that really helps preserve this crisp mint condition. The cover, record, and inner sleeve all come packaged in a large clear plastic sleeve. Your impeccably cleaned record is of course in a new high grade audiophile sleeve. This packaging makes it easy to remove and replace the record without touching the album cover. Sweet!  

Back to sound quality. I'm writing this while eating dinner, warming up, and demagnetizing the system. The XLO demagnetizing tracks are on a CD burned just for this, the tracks repeating half a dozen times. Pretty much all CD is good for anyway, but it is good for that, might as well admit it, and use it.

Give it another 15 min and we will be ready for some warm-up sides. Wouldn't dream of putting a White Hot on a system that isn't ready for it. Couple three sides oughta do it. Then Zero-stat, run the Radio Shack Bulk Tape Eraser over all the cables, and the record, spray Static Guard, turn the damn CDP off, dim the lights, and get ready for the needle drop.

Someone was asking, when it comes to buying these things, what I recommend. Well here it is, short and not so sweet: If you think this kind of prep is over the top, or worse if you think it's nuts, or worst of all if you tried and can't hear any difference, then my recommendation is stick with your record store records. But if you are already doing these, or if you try a couple and appreciate the improvement, then my recommendation is, these are the records you are looking for. Go for it.

Currently at work, but just got notification UPS has finally delivered! About a week late. We did have a lot of snow here, but come on, man! Another one, Sinatra-Basie, is also on the way.  

Listening last night to Taproot Manuscript, A++, what an experience! This is another one I have had a copy of for a very long time. But not a copy like this! Can't wait to get the system nice and warm and hear my White Hot Year of the Cat! Was just playing my old copy last night, so still fresh in my memory. Let's see how Tom does this time! 

Hey Chuck,
What are your recommendations for WHSs?

Already said- if you can find one you really love, and will enjoy hearing it sound like never before, enough to be worth it to you. In other words exact same as anything else.

How many do you have?

Don't know. Not like I keep a list or anything. Going from memory:
Rumours, So, GBYBR, DSMIOTPP, Honky Chateau, Nilsson Schmilsson, Little Touch of Schmillson, Southern Accents, Damn the Torpedoes, Mel Torme Swings Schubert Alley, several Tchaikovsky, couple Mozart, Beatles Help, Neil Diamond Taproot Manuscript, maybe a couple more.

Are all those WH pressings also great masters?

Like I said, they are great pressings. Already said some like the Beatles are what they are. The recording chain from artist to listener is a long and winding road. Let me know if you need more help navigating.

Thanks

You're welcome.

There was a story some years ago in Stereophile, anecdote really, guy who made turntables was doing a demo at a show. Some people bring their own records to play. One time a nice old man asked to please play his special record. One of these very old ones from back before RIAA was standardized, different records required different EQ. Which this guy knew, and had brought his to their room because they had the flexibility to pay it right. 

So he sets it up and puts it on and it is some strange whatever he never heard, certainly not the greatest demo disk that's for sure. The old gent is sitting dead center rapt with emotion tears streaming down his face.

So, yeah. What it's all about.

Love Springsteen songs. One of the very best live acts ever. Well in his prime anyway. Still great for background, in the car, etc. Ghost of Tom Joad on vinyl is pretty good. I will probably go for Darkness some time when Tom has a good one and I've saved up enough for another White Hot.  

Which speaking of, a little birdie tells me there are some outstanding quality Rolling Stones albums, and Led Zeppelin. So I stand corrected on that. But not Bruce. Springsteen remains the King of Great Song, Bad Recording.

Wow mc, think of all the great music you don’t have or listen to because you perceive the sonics to be less than 5 star.

Read Robert Harley’s The Complete Guide to High End Audio. There, among many other great things, you will find his description of music. It is an interesting form of communication. With language, the information in the printed words is fully conveyed no matter the shape (font) of the characters, or how clearly they are printed, or in what color, or even how fast you read them. Hec you can eve leav ou a lo of letrs and stil get the message across. With music the meaning depends entirely on all these things. And more.

Music lives and breathes in the details. Supple vibrato and tremolo is the mark of a talented musician. Exquisite control of pitch and dynamics, the choice of whether to pick a note sharply or softly, every tiny little nuance, this is music.

There really is no way to separate the music from the medium. Live is live, recorded is recorded, and recorded and played back poorly is just not great music.

Yeah, like I said, no pressing can be any better than the master tape. Elvis and Carly Simon are probably like the Beatles and Elton John, they can sound pretty darn good but never really amazing because the recordings themselves were never really amazing. That is why I have avoided buying Springsteen and the Stones, it is just too well known that their recording values suck. 

Although to be honest I have almost bought Darkness on the Edge of Town, it was mastered at The Mastering Lab in LA and while I am not certain it was by the famous Doug Sax just the electronics alone at that place count for a lot. 

This raises another reason why I am so keen on Tom Port and Better-Records.com I had already started noticing many years ago that certain recording and mastering engineers had superior sound. Even as far back as Styx Equinox, which was one of the first where I really liked the sound way back in the 70's. Years later when I started making the connection, looking at the album sure enough there is Mastering Lab in the credits.  

Tom Port has noticed this same thing and has a bunch of mentions of this peppered all over his site. Most of us know Alan Parsons but it wasn't until Tom that I was aware he had mastered Year of the Cat. Tom discovers new stuff too, as mentioned before Shelley Youkas work on Southern Accents.  

This kind of knowledge deepens appreciation and also the connections help improve your odds of finding a really good recording. I am not into Elvis enough to know for sure, but most all these artists be they Elvis, Sinatra, Torme or whoever, they all made many different records and not all with the same engineer.  

Unfortunately while his site has a wealth of information the articles are pretty well scattered around, with a lot of the comments "buried" in particular record reviews. What worked for me, spent a lot of time browsing, reading comments, reading suggested articles, just kind of wandering around. 

It's not the best site to go for an impulse purchase. But it is a great site to use the other way- study, take your time, think about every aspect of what you are buying. With Rumours for example, I knew that was one I had since it came out, timeless tunes, awesome quality, already spent $$ on three copies, always worth the improvement. So I knew the quality was there on the master and that made it easy.   

Nobody knows quite what qualities you are looking for but you. The trick is to take what you know, study what Tom has on the site, and only buy when all the stars align. It is not, repeat not, for everyone. Even when it is, not every record is. Kind of like the Porsche 911, even though it is the best car in the history of cars, not for everyone. And even when it is, then they still have to agonize - C4S? GT3? Turbo S? Horses for courses. 

And speaking of Fleetwood Mac’s "Rumours," I may have sent you a "special" CD of it. If so, get out your old Oppo and compare it with your White Hot Stamper. You may be pleasantly surprised. :-) 

Yes you did Frank, and I tried it, and it was an interesting experience. Because on the one hand I could tell the source was indeed something special. But while special, it was still the Oppo.  

How to explain? Let's see. Imagine you sent me Jennifer Warnes. No not some really good recording. Jennifer Warnes, herself. Wow, how great is that!?! So we go into my listening room and I sit down and just as she is about to sing from out of her pocket comes a garden hose. WTF? Oh, didn't he say? I can only sing through this garden hose. Unless you have a blanket or pillow? Then I can go in the other room and sing with that over my face. But no actual in-person singing. 

Of course I would keep her around for the company- and thanks a lot for that! But I would listen to the record.

A lot of my early audiophile years were spent needlessly worrying about my oh so fragile vinyl. So all my records were dubbed to open reel tape. At 7.5ips my Pioneer RT-1011L was very good, but if you sat and listened in a quiet room it was still pretty impressive how much better the record sounded. Tape is good. Records? Spellbinding.

Dubbing was nice. It allowed me to listen to more music with fewer interruptions, and kept my valuable records safe from harm at wild parties, of which there were quite a few back then. One guy shattered my turntable dust cover when he nearly passed out after a big bong hit.

So it’s not like there’s no value in dubbing to tape. But, digital? To quote Brando https://youtu.be/VKcAYMb5uk4?t=8

Seriously though, all these people worrying about record wear, this is like not driving a new GT3 for fear of rock chips. Reality check: it was made to drive. Records are made to play. So play them. Over and over again.

oregonpapa-

I’ve heard plenty of Better Records’ "White Hot Stampers." As MC says, they are simply amazing. When played back on a highly resolving system, there is nothing like them. These recordings go back a long way, back into the early 1940s mono era, to the great modern stereo recordings that we are all familiar with. Once you hear them, especially on a highly resolving system, you will be on the hunt for them yourself.

Frank

That’s what happened with Mike when he came up from Portland the first time. Played his favorite tracks from Fleetwood Mac Rumours first on the 45 and then my White Hot Stamper.

He was seriously impressed with the 45. "That’s gonna be hard to beat," he said.

Before this I had been telling him how the Better-records.com experience has changed my point of view. I used to think the smart thing to do was put all the emphasis on making the system sound great, because then everything sounds better. Which is true. But listen to a few White Hot Stampers, it is a game changer. Now the question becomes, Why put all this time and effort into a great system only to play mediocre recordings? Why indeed. Now I feel like, why would I want to waste my time on crap when I can be listening to treasure?

Of course it is one thing to talk, quite another to actually experience. After hearing his same two tracks on my White Hot Stamper he said, "Well, you were right. Definitely worth the money."

It’s not just a better record. It’s a better system. More to the point, it’s a better musical experience.

The one I got from your friend, Steve Miller Book of Dreams, it was supposed to be Hot Stamper quality level. I’m not complaining, it is a little better than my other random Steve Miller pressing. Once I cleaned it up real good. Put it in a proper sleeve. Then with a better cover it would be pretty close to Hot Stamper level. Like I said, not complaining. I didn’t pay Hot Stamper price either. Just giving a fair Assessment.

Because until you hear one it is pretty much impossible to explain. Here we have a guy who lives for this kind of thing, has even sold some to Tom, so for sure he knows quality. Yet still there is a big gap between what he thinks is a Hot Stamper and what you actually get with the real deal.

Besides off the charts sound quality they are also impeccably clean, in a new high end sleeve, with a cover that is at least mint (one of them was still in the original shrink wrap!) and the whole thing in a heavy vinyl sleeve, along with their business card with the A+++ ratings on it. For each side.

That is another thing that blew my mind. I never dreamed the album covers would be so minty perfect!

But of course as you said, a highly resolving system helps. As we both know, thanks to Krissy neither of us has any problem there! 😉😍