BEST TONEARM CABLE PURIST VENUSTUS GRAHAM IC 70


HAS ANYBODY COMPARED PURIST VENUSTAS TO GRAHAM IC 70 TO HOVLAND MUSIC GROOVE 2 TO NORDOST TYr ETC I HAVE GRAHAM 2.2 TONEARM..
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Showing 12 responses by sirspeedy70680e509

BTW-Neil,my pal now tells me that his Venustas had only 25 hrs on it.The IC-70 had hundreds.Do you really think the 25 hrs were NOT enough.Believe me when I tell you that I can't get away from how stunning his highs were.I've dialed his set-up dozens of times,but never "THIS"!!

Regards!
BTW-I too had the original IC-30.My friend did,as well.When we both moved to the IC-70,there was NO contest.The IC-70,here,was a clear winner.Please don't think I'm going on some IC-70 "binge".I would love to move to a possibly better link,but I have to be really careful,and follow my own methodology,unless some of you more well off Audiogoners would like to give me a freebie.

Best!
Nsgarch,well we had the comparison yesterday.Yes the Venustas had a darker,more silken presentation.However the IC-70 had a more dynamic presentation,with fuller bass.All at first blush.

The arm was the Graham 2.2.What we did(three experienced audiophiles)was,first compare both cables with exact arm/cartridge parameters.Here,it was surprisingly close,with The Venustas being a bit smoother and refined,with a deeper stage.However the IC-70 had stronger bass and dynamics,with a wider stage.Yet two of us felt the Venustas was bringing out a bit more high freq detail,and smoother too.At this point a riot almost broke out,as my other pal(the most qualified of us all)was adamantly pushing for re-voicing to each cables strenghts.This was VERY time consuming.He won!

At this point,my friend Sid,a very experienced 'phile,asked if I would go through the process again(a pain in the butt,btw)but to see if the arm/cart parameters could be slightly re-voiced for each cables personality.This proved quite intriguing,as there was a definite arm/cart voicing for each cable(go figure).

The final result yielded a blacker background(I think)and enhanced depth,for the Venustas,with a slightly smoother high end and gorgeous high freq decay.The IC-70 still is more dynamic,in this particular set-up(my friend's),with a wider,almost explosive stage presentation.

Truthfully,I think there is a system dependant aspect to this,and am really at an impass,as to whether it was really all that big a deal.Even with the differences,which were clearly obvious,it was easy to voice the arm/cart parameters,slightly,to close the gap.This is my delemma,as I have gotten really good at this,yet don't like to rationalize,if something can be made better.

I have to really do some careful pondering,and maybe bring my own records to my friend's house,to quantify if it is worth spending the extra dough.Though I loved the Venustas,the IC-70 is NO slouch.Yet I cannot get away from the fact that I never heard such STUNNING high freq decay in my friend's system.

One final note(sorry for the length)--We had a 90 degree connector added to the arm side of the Venustas,to compensate for the required angle needed to properly connect into the Cosmos table(I have a Cosmos too).This turned out to be sourced from Cardas,and though superb,it almost required a pliers to seperate it from the arm.Also,due to the "pin" connections in the arm,the ninety degree(right angle) connectors did NOT allow the cabling to go straight down,as does the IC-70(which it should).I'm concerned that if I were to go Venustas,this could affect my table's suspension.Thought I would mention this.

Anyway,as this hobby is quite cerebral,I'm forced to think on all these matters,before making any changes.Also,I hate using my brain,too much!

Thanks for all your valuable thoughts,and any correspondence,on this matter,is always welcome.
I don't think I originally made myself clear.Instead of the straight line connector,originally used on the Venustas,Jim used the Cardas "right angle" connector instead.However due to the pin positioning in the bottom 2.2 arm block this basically rendered the Cardas right angle connector as no better than if we went with the original connector.The cable,still ran sideways.No real big deal,but the IC-70 goes straight down,as the pin orientation is exactly lined to let the Graham right angle connector do it's thing.The Cardas,as supplied by Venustas did NOT require any additional adaptor.It worked just fine.

Also,please don't get me wrong.The Venustas DID give superb flat response,top to bottom.It's just that we DID do a very extensive comparison.Both cables compared with EXACT arm/cart parameters.Then both cables compared with a "small" voicing to what the three of us felt they both "liked the best".How many people do you think actually "like doing this"?It SUCKED,as I was the "schlep" set-up man!

In the first(no change case)there was really not nearly as big a difference as we'd have expected,except for a slight darkening in the Purist,with smooth,not rolled,highs.The IC-70 may have been a bit more diffuse,but had clearly more dynamics,and deeper bass.We are talking SMALL,but detectable differences.

In case two,we voiced to each cable's preferences,based upon how they related in the overall sound of my friend's system(quite legit,actually).Here a small voicing of fluid/downforce/vta(really small,btw)definitely impacted what our perceptions were.The overall slightly dark(in a good way,to my tasres)Purist cable was more enhanced in it's "harmonic" strengths,with the IC-70 edging it in dynamics and bass power(the Venustas was NO slouch in bass,though).These were our observations,though my friend who actually bought the SUPERB Venustas was really beginning to lose some credibility,as he clearly "wanted" the Venustas to smoke the IC-70,which it did not.

I tried to really be open minded,yet it was my friend SID,who is a qualified music and audio maven(BIG TIME),he wrote the original Mercury LP reviews for TAS,who really hit the comparison on all cylindars,and I really heard it ALL as he did.

The Venustas was,and is SUPERB.Really in ALL areas,but I don't think anyone touting the Purist stuff has done this particular comparison,as we did(real blood,and sweat)on Friday.Even you,Nsgarsh(and I definitely take all comments by you as knowledgeable,and informative,as well as pretty accurate)admitted to getting the Purist because it was a "good deal",which is FINE with me.You knew it was great,and could not,and did not go wrong!Yet,as is human nature, it is all too easy to dismiss another "no longer implemented in one's set-up" product as "significantly" inferior,which is what I've been led to believe about the IC-70.Well it simply is NOT the case,based upon our observations.The IC-70 is competitive,and I really think the "actual" system personality will dictate which is preferred.My friend's set-up is Kharma based,and we have always felt it was a bit lean.It is better now,no doubt.I run Avalons,with Cardas Golden Cross speaker cables(I had to run the Cardas for two reasons.First-I have to tri-wire,and anything else would be very expensive.Second-my Amp and speaker are cabled with Cardas,so it was common sense,to go this way).To me,a beautiful,articulate and warmer sound than my friend's stunning Kharmas.Maybe the IC-70 would meet my tastes,here.Who knows for sure?

Well that's about it,but I'm not definitely ruling out a change.

Best,as usual!!
Nsgarsh,from my experience,you are dead on,and correct in your observations.There are numerous ways to keep pushing the envelope,if one is willing to keep learning,and go "hands on".Yet there is always the contingent who crave the "cache" stuff,which is fine with me,but the better systems I've been privy to belong to the "I won't replace it until I hear something better in my own room" crowd.

BTW-as of this moment(4:30 pm est)I'm really feeling like if I don't hear the Venustas in my own set up,I may be rationalizing,and never really know if I can improve upon what I already have.I'm getting a HUGE sales pitch from my friend(who went for his),and am having a hard time fending him off.Do you have any loose cash hanging around,that you can spare?
Thomas,I had that guage,which was accurate to 1/100 gm.The only problem was every time I wanted to check downforce,on the fly,I had to charge it for a day.Not good,if you have some critical friends over,who claim I need a bit of additional downforce,or if I feel like playing around,during any specific listening session.

Best!
Nsgarsh,yes it was broken in.Also,the first comparison was with no changes,for voicing.Also,it was Jim Aud who added the right angle connector,so I assume he knew what he was doing.Do you still feel that I would benefit by not having this connection path?I could probably get away with the straight one,but is it a technically better way to go?And,why didn't Purist Audio recommend my pal NOT get the ninety degree connection,if it was not as effective?

You know I trust in your comments,so any afterthoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks.
Nsgarsh,as a very good friend of EBM,and having almost the exact set-up as him,except speakers,I'll have the good fortune to compare the Venustas Phono link to the IC-70.This in about two weeks,as he HAS ordered the Venustas.I'm intimately familiar with his set-up,as I helped in setting it up,and have heard it dozens of times.I cannot wait for this,final comparison,for me,before really knowing any meaningful result.Should the Venustas "trump" the IC-70,then I will obviously move in that direction.BTW--it was your influence and input that put me up to recommending my friend move to a Venustas,since he was very curious about it possibly improving his already superb phono performance.He has a very "high res" system,that is Kharma based.

As an aside,I just called Bob Graham to ask for his input on this cable choice matter.His answer was very firm,in that he felt STRONGLY "there is no way the IC-70 can be improved",and "any other choices will only diffuse the sound,or add a different flavor".Obviously I hope he's correct,as this will save me some dough,but I will finally have my answer,soon!Thanks for being so generous with advice,but I DO hope you are wrong,on this one!
Sorry to bug you,again,Nsgarsh,but would you know the exact screw driver,used for taking out the batteries from the Digi-One stylus force guage.Also,the battery,and where it can be gotten.

BTW-you're a true "Prince",for being as helpful as you've been.Thanks!
Oh,I forgot to mention what could probably be a salient point.My friend,Sid,who has WAY more experience,and knowledge than anyone I've ever met,in this hobby,brought up the point that when there is less bass present,there is always the perception of greater high freq extension.I don't know for sure,but I'd hate to attribute the slightly more enhanced high freq performance of the Veustas(GOD it WAS gorgeous,though) to the slightly lower bass impact,it had compared to the IC-70.BTW both cables were STUNNING overall and I'm splitting hairs,yet there seemed to be real silky beauty derived from the Venustas,and Big Boy bass bloom from the IC-70,with a definitely wider stage presentation.I could happily live with either,yet when I factor in that I've got to spend about 7-8 hundred bucks,out of pocket if I go for the Venustas(taking into account what I'd get for the IC-70),I have to wonder,based on how critical the cart/arm voicing was,and how it impacted overall performance(AFTER the original NO CHANGES comparison(which was closer than you'd think),whether the money would be better spent in going to the SUPERB Winds guage instead.My current guage is accurate to 50/100's of a gram,and we do tune by ear,after a point.However once we found the EXACT downforce,the 1/100 of a gram Winds guage proved indispensable!HMM!My pal Sid felt this was as valid an expenditure as moving to the Venustas.Actually he felt it was the fine tuning of the arm/cart that was the "end all" here,and the "cable thing" was audible,yet of
little consequence as compared to the differences attributable to the voicing of arm/cart.I am still in the dark,as to how I feel about the whole issue,but it's my dough,I'll be spending!

"What, O What to DO"!!