BEST TONEARM CABLE PURIST VENUSTUS GRAHAM IC 70


HAS ANYBODY COMPARED PURIST VENUSTAS TO GRAHAM IC 70 TO HOVLAND MUSIC GROOVE 2 TO NORDOST TYr ETC I HAVE GRAHAM 2.2 TONEARM..
ebm

Showing 14 responses by nsgarch

I don't think he's shouting Kat. I think his "caps lock" is stuck in the 'on' position. Now tbg, well I don't think it's the same story exactly. . . . . . .
Actually Speedy, there is a thread somewhere here (if I'm not mistaken, you were a participant) in which the Purist, Hovland and Graham were compared. See if you can find it. I'll look too.
I have the PV which replaced my original vdH SME V cable. I think there is a thread here somewhere that discusses/compares all the ones you mention except for the Nordost. See if you can find it. (I'll look too ;~))
John, I enjoyed reading your write-up on the different phono cables/setups, but I think I got lost somewhere:

You had the SB w/ DIN on your Linn. Then did you try a different SB (RCA to RCA) on the Clearaudio?

And was the Venustas RCA to RCA you tried a regular IC, or a tonearm cable? (I do understand the KB was a standard IC)

Also, what were you using to connect the Io to the preamp? Did that remain constant, or did you match it to the manufacturer of whatever you were using from the tonearm-to-phono preamp?

I'm asking all these details because I almost got a SB from Max to audition, but before I did, I went to CES (2005) and Jim Aud gave me a great buy on a Venustas phono (DIN to RCA) and a regular Venustas RCA/RCA to go from my phono preamp to my preamp. So I never got to compare the two -- but before I heard the Venustas, the SB was going to be my choice if it performed as many said it would.

Neil

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John, thanks for the additional info. Now I understand what you did.

For those who aren't aware, and to back up what John mentioned, using balanced interconnects (if your equipment allows) between (especially) cartridge > phono preamp > preamp, or CDP/DAC > preamp, almost always results in better sonics. (Phono cartridges, whether MC or MM are inherently balanced output devices anyway.)

I mention this because balanced ICs are often only discussed in the context of long runs between preamp and amp (to eliminate noise.) And often people forget (or don't even realize) that balanced circuits usually provide more signal strength as well.
Speedy, my suggestion? Get out your checkbook!

For some time though, I wished I'd had a chance to hear the Silver Breeze before the Venustas (accidentally) came my way, fully broken in and about 2/3 off retail. Which I mention only because that's the only way I would have bought them sight unheard without an audition. As for the SB, I'll take John's word for it since he's apparently spent a lot of time comparing.

PS: Well what the hell did you expect Bob to say?
John, that's interesting. Mark Levinson, in their highly acclaimed 32 and 320s phono stages does something similar. If you go to their website and open the pdf owner's manual for the optional phonostage cards, it talks about how/why they achieve a "balanced" input circuit for the cartridge, even though the inputs are RCA.

My guess is it's a way of achieving lower noise phono amplification, even if you have, for instance, dedicated tonearm cables that terminate with RCAs only.
Speedy, I have a couple questions and one comment.

The questions:

Were the Purist and the Graham cables both broken in? Same amount? >100 hours (Cardas test record makes this easy)

Were you using a separate phono preamp? If "yes" then were you using each phono cables' matching ICs (Purist or Graham respectively) between the phono preamp and the preamp?

Comment: At the small voltages we're talking about, inserting that additional rt. angle DIN in the signal chain would be a definite "no no", certainly for any apples-to-apples comparison. (Venustas are available w/ straight DIN plugs BTW)

As for "arm/cartridge parameters" and "re-voicing" them to match the cables -- well you can probably guress I take a dim view of that ;~)) As far as I'm concerned, you set your arm, cartridge, SRA, and load as optimally as you possibly know how, using any phono cable, perhaps even a "disinterested" third brand! Then leave it alone and run the comparison. Otherwise, you'll start "foolin' around" in order to hear what you think you should hear, and wind up in la la land, results-wise!

Of all the things I mentioned above necessary to design a fair and useful experiment, probably the biggest hassle is providing well broken-in specimens. That takes a bit of pre-planning, but is essential to making meaningful comparisons.

In my case, I bought my Venustas already broken in, and compared them only to the vdH silver hybrid that SME supplies w/ the SME V. That experiment only took about 3 minutes!

I have an extremely neutral and very revealing system. If the Venustas were any more "dynamic" top to bottom, it might actually result in listener fatigue. So it would be interesting to hear a (broken in) Graham, Hovland or Silver Breeze sometime to see if they are in fact bright(er). I guess the Cardas Golden Reference has gone out of favor for being too warm and schmaltzy -- but I wouldn't know, that's just what I hear ;~))
Speedy,

Either DIN termination is electrically identical. The choice of rt. angle vs. straight DIN connector is purely a function of your tonearm configuration and/or how the cable has to exit the turntable itself -- as you indicated ("the ninety degree(right angle) connectors did NOT allow the cabling to go straight down") I was simply referring to the extra set of contacts brought into the picture when you had to add the Cardas rt. angle adaptor to the mix. So if you do decide to buy a Venustas, just make sure you specify you want it with a straight DIN connector, that's all. I can't imagine Jim A. recommending someone not get the straight DIN if that's what would work best in your setup. Does the Graham receptacle point straight down, or to the side?
Speedy,

If everything's right with the arm/tt setup, then the Venustas should give you flat response top to bottom. If it doesn't, then it may be you need to adjust the cartridge loading in the phono preamp to a slightly lower value, to compensate for that extra DIN connector which is adding resistance (and unductance, which sucks up bass) that the Graham doesn't have to contend with. (That's why I said using the adaptor wouldn't give a true comparison)

Try using the Venustas without the extra DIN. Throw a loop in the pigtail (so it won't affect the suspension) and secure the outgoing side of the loop to the TT base with a nylon cord clamp secured to the bottom back edge of the base.
Speedy, you're right, I don't think I've read anything about the IC-70? The IC-50, yes, but not the 70. Is it something more recent?

Not that I'm about to give up my Venustas, or if/when I do, it'll be because I scored a killer deal on a Dominus, if John doesn't get there first, that is ;~))

No one ever mentioned it before John just did, but it's so true that as you move up to really great phono cables, you can "zero in" further on your TT/arm setup as you are able to refine the setup and hear subtle differences you couldn't before. For example:

Yesterday, I spent a couple hours re-leveling my TT and then arm/platter level match. Then redoing the anti-skate. The improvements in image and channel balance were obvious, not only to my ears, but I was using the Cardas record and a pair of accurate VU meters which I finally got set properly to match the specified dB levels on the record. What a trip! So guess what Virginia? You can make big improvements in your system for zero dollars + your time, and that's the 'art" part of this hobby (for those who may think I'm just a science guy ;~))

My next step I think will be to have the four Camac connectors on my beloved Levinson 25s phono preamp changed for RCAs (which the later models had ;~(( I can no longer bear the thought of four unnecessary contact points in my phono signal path! I was going to ask Jim Aud if he'd reterminate my Venustas RCAs with Camacs, but I was afraid he'd never speak to me again!
speedy,

earthlink denies your existance


Do I have a Digi-One SFG -- I think it's actually called an Audio One SFG from Audioparts? Is that the one you're
referring to? I got mine on an Agon auction but they're
available (a lot) cheaper if you want to do without the
little offset platform (or make your own.)

Anyway, if that's the one you're talking about, you don't
need a screwdriver, just a ball point pen will do. There's
a small 1/8" half-round cut-out next to the rim of each
battery. You just stick the point of the pen in the little
hole pushing it gently under the edge of the battery and
it will just pop out.

It requires 2 x 3V lithium batteries No. CR 2032. Install
plus side up. Should be available at Walgreens Drug,
or any camera store.

Neil

.
Speedy, as you know I never heard my Venustas phono "new" so to speak because Jim had already broken them in. And he was very emphatic about pointing this out (as an added extra!) when I bought them. So I'm sure it's an issue. I suggest you call or e-mail him and ask. He'll get right back to you, although his responses themselves are often somewhat cryptic!
Thanks John, I really had no way to answer Speedy's question. BTW, if anyone wants a good source (read "discount") for a lot of this really expensive high end stuff, send me your email address and I'll forward a copy of the latest list.