Sailor: I'd be interested to hear the responses so I'll kick it off. Right now I've got Sonny Rollins Saxophone Colossus playing (the Fantasy Jazz 20 Bit version). My new modern find was from a member here, James Carter's Chasing the Gypsy. Recorded last year, this guy plays bass sax on some of the album and you'll fear for your speakers life.
Coltrane & Adderley in Chicago.
A couple of my favorites: Coltrane--Ballads. Shorter--JuJu.
Try "Boss Tenors" with Gene Ammons and Sonny Stitt. Sonny is on the left and Ammons on the right speaker. How sweet it is....Another smoker is Hawkins meets Webster, man if they only could perfect cloning to my way of thinking.
Have to agree that Sonny Rollins' "Saxophone Colossus" is outstanding... for something a little different check out Hamiet Bluiett's big, warm bari sax tribute to Nat King Cole called "Makin' Whoopee" by the King/Bluiett Trio (Mapleshade..check out their website..gr8 recording)
I also like Sonny Rollins "This Is What I Do".
Sailor 630, there are so many and everyone has their own favorites, but for my two cents worth I like, among others:
'Crescent' w/John Coltrane
'Live at Ethell's' w/Clifford Jordan
'Just For Yor' w/Harold Ashby
But I could have named dozens more and not have been unhappy.
Good luck and good listening.
anything by ben webster; especially "at the renessance" and "coleman hawkins encounters ben webster". ben's tone is one of the most wonderful and emotive sounds in music, and is totally unique to him. he does with a sax what miles does at his peak with his trumpet. a "less is more" approach with the silence between the notes as satisfying as the notes themselves. he started as a piano player and maybe that had something to do with his style.
I agree with several posts, here's my list:
1. Sonny Rollins, Saxaphone Collossus DCC Vinyl
2. Ben Webster, at the Renaissance APO Vinyl
3. Coltrane, Blue Train Mofi Gold CD
4. Domnerus, Antiphone Blues FIM Gold CD
5. Moondog, Sax Pax for a Sax (this is a weird one, but if you love the sax, this is a great recording.)
Sailor: I, and perhaps others, would appreciate if you get any of these (or already own some), put in your comments once you've listened to them. It's good to see what suggestions have been helpful. Enjoy.
Coletrane with Johhny Hartman, Desmond-Pure Desmond.
I'd like to add another Sonny Rollins, "The Blue Note Years". This is a '89 compilation of some his best work from '57 and '58. One of my favorites.
I am having a slow afternoon at work, so I thought I'd respond to your post. I started listening to jazz seriously about 40 years ago, and have a number of saxophone favorites that I can suggest. First, however, a few introductory comments.
Prior to the early 1930's, the saxophone was not used as a solo instrument, but rather as an ensemble instrument. The saxophone family ranges from soprano sax (highest pitched), alto, tenor, baritone, and bass (lowest pitched). During the early days of jazz, there was also a C-melody sax that was sometimes played, but it dropped from common usage.
The first truly great saxophonist was either Sidney Bechet or Coleman Hawkins, depending on your point of view and timeframe. Bechet initially played the clarinet, but later adopted the soprano sax and played it almost exclusively. Bechet was an extraordinarily gifted musician, but he did not have a broad American following. It was not until he went to France in the 1930's that he was acknowledged for his genius.
During the 1930's, Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young established the two stylistic schools of playing which still prevail today. Both played tenor, but Hawkins had a rougher, grittier tone that featured a lot of vibrato, whereas Young had a much lighter, airier tone that featured very little vibrato. From these two masters have derived virtually every modern sax player. The following list, broken down by type of sax, should help get your started:
1. Sidney Bechet
2. John Coltrane
3. Wayne Shorter
4. Steve Lacy
1. Lester Young
2. Charlie Parker
3. Johnny Hodges
4. Art Pepper
5. Lee Konitz
6. Warne Marsh
7. Paul Desmond
8. Julian "Cannonball" Adderley
9. Eric Dolphy
10. Phil Woods
11. Bud Shank
12. Frank Morgan
13. Kenny Garrett
1. Coleman Hawkins
2. Lester Young
3. Ben Webster
4. Sonny Rollins
5. John Coltrane
6. Johnny Griffin
7. Dexter Gordon
8. Stan Getz
9. Sonny Stitt
10. Zoot Sims
11. Wayne Shorter
12. David Murray
13. Charles Lloyd
14. Rahsaan Roland Kirk
1. Harry Carney
2. Gerry Mulligan
3. Pepper Adams
4. Ronnie Cuber
Not all of these artists may play in a style that you initially enjoy -- but they do provide a range of sounds and styles, and over time you will develop a deeper appreciation of their abilities. Good listening to you!
Now, those are recommendations! WOW!
Well done sdcampbell, that was like taking in a good lecture. What about bass sax, what little I've heard sounds interesting.
After I got home and read my post, I noted an error: I listed Lester Young under alto sax, and again under tenor. He should have been listed only under tenor.
In response to "Wirehead": I don't know of any recordings that actually feature bass sax, since the instrument has a very large bore and is a bitch to play. Hence, when the bass sax is heard, it's normally in a group and is featured as a supporting instrument.
I was just getting on a roll with my previous post when I got interrupted and hard to actually get some work done. So, let me pick up the thread and make a few additional comments.
During the 1930's and 1940's, when Swing bands were successful, many of the great sax players were members of the groups led by Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Benny Goodman, Tommy & Jimmy Dorsey, Jimmy Lunceford, Fletcher Henderson, etc.
Duke Ellington wrote many of his best pieces specifically for the gifted players in his band, so there are many tunes that are associated with his saxophone players that included Johnny Hodges, Ben Webster, Russell Procope, and Paul Gonsalves.
The 1930's and 1940's produced an unusually large number of superb saxophone players, probably because the big bands were very popular and it was thus possible for large groups to stay together for extended periods. There is always some danger in putting together a list of the "top" players from an era, particularly since so many of them are little known today. A list of the "bests" from this era would have to include Chu Berry, Don Byas, Herschel Evans, Illinois Jacquet, Flip Phillips, Tex Beneke, Earl Bostic, Budd Johnson, Jimmy Dorsey, Buddy Tate, and Benny Carter. Benny Carter was alive and still making records well into the 1990's.
In my first post, I mentioned that the respective styles of Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young gave rise to the two "schools" or styles that still define sax players today.
Coleman Hawkins playing style, which has been described as warm, rather dark, full-bodied, and having a medium to fast vibrato, can be contrasted with Lester Young's style which was cool and light-colored, with a slow vibrato. Hawkins influenced players such as Herschel Evans, Chu Berry, Ben Webster, and Sonny Rollins.
Lester Young's style had somewhat great comparative impact, as can be seen from this list of players who adopted Young's style: Charlie Parker; Brew Moore; Paul Quinichette; Bob Cooper; Wardell Gray; Zoot Sims; Lee Konitz; Warne Marsh; Dexter Gordon; Gene Ammons; Sonny Stitt; Stan Getz; Richie Kamuca; Al Cohn; Don Lanphere; Jimmy Giuffre; John Coltrane; and Hank Mobley.
With the advent of the Bop and Hardbop eras (mid-1940's to early 1960's), the tenor sax clearly eclipsed the alto as the "voice" of the small jazz group. For those who want to really immerse themselves in the great music of this period, here's a short list of the best sax players that have not already been mentioned:
Jackie McLean; Lou Donaldson; Gigi Gryce.
Jimmy Heath; Frank Foster; Clifford Jordan; Teddy Edwards; Benny Golson; John Gilmore; Oliver Nelson; Junior Cook; Stanley Turrentine; Booker Ervin; Joe Henderson; Harold Land; and Tina Brooks.
Cecil Payne; and Nick Brignola
In the post-bop era, "free" jazz era, the most influential alto sax player of the 1960's was probably Ornette Coleman. Coleman is one of the most prolific post-bop composers, and his works and playing style reflect a fresh, adventurous melodic concept. Some of the sax players that were influenced by Coleman include: Dewey Redman; Henry Threadgill; Carlos Ward; Archie Shepp; Oliver Lake; Jan Garbarek; and Albert Ayler.
The last group of sax players that should be mentioned are those that are associated with jazz-rock fusion. While there is no "superstar" of the sax associated with this period of the 1970's and 1980's, many of the players have become well known: Michael Brecker; Wayne Shorter; David Liebman; Grover Washington; Eddie Harris; David Sanborn; John Klemmer; and Kenny G. (Honesty compels me to say that I do not consider many of these musicians to be "jazz artists" in the strict sense. I do not mean for this to sound intellectually snobby, but much of the music in this style lacks many of the key elements of jazz in the classical sense.)
Well, Sailor630, I hope my two posts get you started (infact, it may cause collective overload). Best wishes -- it's always nice to welcome someone to the beauty of good jazz.
Sd, wonderful work, very thorough, as for the "hardcore" picks, mine go like this;
1) Coltrane>>> All on Atlantic, Prestige and Impulse, but not "A Love Supreme" or Impulse after that time period.
2)Cannonball Adderly, Somethin Else, In Chicago
3)Junior Cook>> Somethings Cookin
4)Lou Donaldson>> Blues Walk, Lush Life
5)Johnny Griffin>> Return of the Griffin, You Leave me breathless, To the Ladies, The Congregation
6)Dexter Gordon>> One Flight Up, Bouncin with Dex
7)Colman Hawkins>> The Hawk Flies High, Hawk in Germany
8)Joe Henderson>> Live at the Vanguard, Relaxin at Camarillo, Mirror Mirror, Our Thing, Inner Urge, Foresight
9)Clifford Jordon>>Highest Mountain
10)Yusef Lateef>>Eastern Sounds
11)Branford Marsalis>> Royal Garden Blues, Renaissance
12)Hank Mobley>> Dippin, Soul Station, Work Out
13)Oliver Nelson>> Blues and the Abstract Truth, Straght Ahead, Screamin the Blues
14)Charlie Parker>> Charlie at Storyville, All sides on Savoy Records !!!!
15)Sonny Rollins>> Live at Vanguard, On Impulse, Plays for Bird
16)Wayne Shorter>> Juju, Adams Apple, Speak No Evil, Night Dreamer, The Soothsayer, The All Seeing Eye
17)Stanley Turrentine>> Mr Natural, Don't Mess With Mr.T, West Side Highwy,
18) Stan Getz>> Voyage,
19) Art Pepper>> Meets the Rythem Section, Smack Up, Gettin Together
The above artists and disks are what I consider the finest in the Jazz sax category, Hope this helps......Frank
What about Kenny G??
Only kidding. I remember buying his first LP..yes LP. This had to be 20 years ago and in the liner notes he was being touted as the next Sonny Stitt.The Lp and he flat out sucked. He is a flyweight among heavyweights, timing is everything. Can you imagine G on stage at a JATP?
Frap: Good choices, all. Here are some recordings that I think deserve to be added to your fine list:
1. Charlie Parker: "The Complete Dial Recordings"; "Charlie Parker With Strings"; and the concert at Massey Hall (with Dizzy Gillespie and Max Roach).
2. John Coltrane: with Miles Davis on: "Kind of Blue"; and "Miles Davis & John Coltrane in Stockholm" (1960, Dragon).
3. Sonny Rollins: "Tenor Madness"; "Sonny Rollins Plus 4"; "Way Out West" (all 3 from the 1950's); "The Bridge" (1962).
4. Stan Getz: "Stan Getz & J.J. Johnson at the Opera House" (1957, Verve); "Jazz Samba" (1963, with Charlie Byrd); "Focus" (Verve); and "People Time" (with Kenny Barron, early 1990's).
5. Dexter Gordon: "Go" and "Our Man In Paris" (early 1960's, Blue Note); some of the recordings he did in in the 1970's for Steeplechase Records (Danish label); and his "comeback" recordings at the Village Vanguard in 1976-77 (Columbia).
6. Johnny Griffin: "The Little Giant" (Riverside).
7. Cannonball Adderley: "Cannonball Adderley Quintet in San Francisco" (1959, Riverside).
8. Clifford Jordan: "Blowin' In" (1957, Blue Note).
9. Art Pepper: "Among Friends" (Discovery); "Straight Life" (Contemporary); and "Art Pepper with the Milcho Leviev Quarter - Live at Ronny Scott's" (Mole Jazz, late 1970's).
10. Ben Webster: "Art Tatum and Ben Webster" (Pablo, about 1956-57).
Last, I'd add several of the fine recordings done by Charles Lloyd in the 1990's (ECM label): "Fish Out of Water"; "Voice In The Night"; and "The Water Is Wide".
Thanks, everybody, for your participation. This has been a good thread, and I've enjoyed sharing some ideas with you.
Good addendum SD, but no fair reversing number 2 (ha ha, just kidding)....Frank
A few more that haven't been listed. My favorite Lester young record (laughin to keep from cryin) has Lester playing the clarinet only.Johnny Hodges (Blues a-Plenty and everybody knows Johnny Hodges) Another great record is Paul Gonsalves (Ellingtonia Moods & Blues) with Hodges joining in. Gerry Mulligan's "Night Lights" is great late night listening.
Mostly bop, but easy to listen to - here are some of my favorites.
- The Dolphin
- Sweet Rain
- Spring is Here
- Pure Getz
- Takin' Care of Business
- Unsung Hero
- Warm Tenor
- Zoot at Ease
- For Lady Day
- Zoot Sims and the Gershwin Brothers
- Surf Ride
- The Best of Stanley Turrentine
- Two of a Mind w/Gerry Mulligan
- Bossa Antigua
- Polka Dots and Moonbeams
- Pure Desmond
- Brazilliance Volume 2
Sdcampbell, I would respectfully like to comment on your fine posts. I would move the time frame during which the saxophone became more of a solo instrument back by a few years, perhaps even a decade. Coleman Hawkins was recording by the mid-twenties; also, Sidney Bechet recorded with Louis Armstrong as early as 1924. During the '20's and '30's there was in this country a veritable "saxophone craze". A wide range of saxophones in different keys and of different ranges was manufactured: sopraninos in Eb and F, sopranos in Bb and C, altos in Eb and F, C melody, straight (as opposed to curved) altos and tenors(!!!!!), baritones in C and Eb, and quite a few others with other new and "innovative" features. The surviving members of the saxophone family are: sopranino in Eb, soprano in Bb, alto in Eb, tenor in Bb, baritone in Eb, and bass in Bb. The sopranino and bass are seldom heard in a solo context but can be heard on recordings by Anthony Braxton and James Carter. As far as recommended players go, I would add Charlie Mariano, Bob Mover (alto); George Coleman, Frank Wess, Joe Lovano (tenor) and question the inclusion of David Murray; personal opinion, but I just don't get what the hoopla is about. Otherwise, a great list. Your comments about the players associated with jazz-rock fusion concern me however. I think I know where you're coming from here, but I find the inclusion of Kenny G in a list that includes Brecker, Shorter, and Liebman troublesome. If ever there was a "superstar" in this genre, I would say Michael Brecker is it. He is, besides being one of the greatest ever virtuosos on the instrument, one of the best examples of "post-Coltrane" tenor playing. For better or for worse he has been the most influential tenor player of the last twenty years or so. I can't think of any modern player that has so influenced the way that young tenor players sound today. A brilliant improviser in "straight ahead" as well as fusion. Wayne Shorter is certainly much more than a fusion player as his work with Miles in the sixties demonstrates. Liebman, brilliant! Oh yeah, Id like to add Jerry Bergonzi to the list of great tenor players. I guess my point about fusion is that there has been and continues to be some really creative and interesting writing and playing in the general genre "fusion" that is, IMO, worthy of consideration as important contributions to jazz; the dreck that Kenny G and even Klemmer put out is in a different category altogether. Anyway, I have as always, enjoyed and appreciated your posts on one of my favorite subjects. My choice for best Jazz sax recording: John Coltrane "Giant Steps". I can't think of any recorded saxophone solo, with the possible exception of Coleman Hawkins' famous "Body and Soul", that has been as studied, scrutinized and analyzed by players as Trane's solo on the title tune. It truly shook up the saxophone world. Best.
Frogman, (remember me from the Coltrane thread? :-)....
yup, agreed, let's also add George Garzone. Bergonzi is a huge personal favorite of mine too. But hey, there are a lot of other lesser known great sax players out there pushing the envelope. Names that come to mind are Chris Speed, Seamus Blake, Rob Stillman, Rob Brown, Peter Epstein, Donny McCaslin, David Binney, Jim Hobbs...
But getting back on topic, as for great sax "CD's", I'd have to get a little more mainstream in my reccomendations, some of my favorite players who time & time again put out great works are, (in no particular order): Trane, Joe Henderson, Jerry Bergonzi, George Garzone, Joe Lovano, yeah sure Brecker, Ornette Coleman, also a whole host of other "older" lesser known NY guys, as opposed to the younger ones I mentioned above, who are just monster players.
Jay, good to hear from someone who obviously knows what's what in the saxophone world. It is unfortunate that so many of the really great and interesting young players seldom get heard by so much of the music loving public. Regards.
oops, a few glaring oversights came to mind today: Chris Potter, Greg Osby, oh and how could I forget Gary Thomas.
or Eric Alexander, Rich Perry, Walt Levinsky, Gary Smulian, Marty Erlick, Bill Evans...............
oops! Not Walt Levinsky (different era altogether). I meant Walt Weiskoff.
yes indeed. I also go for the ECM thing, John Surman, & Jan whats-his-name.
My favorite LP is Jam Session #1. This might seem an odd one, but it cooks. In the studio that day playing sax..Charlie Parker, Johnny Hodges,Ben Webster,Benny Carter and Flip Phillips. On trumpet, Charlie Shavers, and the rythm section,Ray Brown, Barney Kessel, Oscar Peterson and J.C. Heard. On side one there's one cut, the sax players take turns playing ballads with everyone else taking shorter solos. Side two is the same thing only their jammin, again one cut. This was recorded in 1951 and the sound is amazing. You'd think it was recorded yesterday. The sax players up front, taking turns trying to outdo each other. To hear these greats, one after another is almost a history lesson.
"Best" to me is like the term "favorite." For me it changes from day to day, especially with music as there is SO MUCH great music out there. Last night I listened to the LP Gene Ammons "Blue Gene" and LOVED IT. Happy Listening to All!
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Joshua Redman. I think he is also a very talented Sax player! Just listen to his closing concert at San Francisco Jazz Festival 2001, playing duet with Christian McBride (bass). It wa surreal! This concert ranked right up there with his solo performance last year at the Grace Cathedral.
Duh, typical, I forgot one of my FAVORITE musicians of all time, who happens to be a tenor player- DEWEY Redman. Gundam91, please check out the infinite sea of beauty and insight from which came the young, developing Josh Redman.
Agree with Drrasta's "Ballads" and as another melodic sample of Coltrane would add my favorite rainy day piece "The Gentle Side of John Coltrane" (Impulse). Even the cd is good.
Billy Harper is an excellent tenor saxophonist who has been around for over 30 years. He comes out of Texas originally and has that big Texas tenor sound a la Booker Ervin. Ecstatic Coltrane and gospel are two of his influences. My wife and I love his music.
He has many fine releases under his own name and on others' sessions, including Lee Morgan, Woody Shaw, and Gil Evans.
Not familiar with Billy Harper, do you have 1 or 2 favorites that you would recommend as starters?
Do you mean sound-wise or performance-wise? Sonny Rollins "The Bridge" and Johnny Griffin "Return of the Griffin" come to mind performance-wise. Soundwise, most audiophiles will not like my suggestion: settle for nothing short of the live event.
Check out Harper's work with the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Big Band from the '70's; "Potpourri" in particular. Great addition to the list; thanks 1197.
Forgot Sonny Stitt "Moonlight in Vermont" and Lew Tabackin, with the big band or in a smaller group.
Billy Harper's Sessions
Out of print LPs:
Love On The Sudan (Denon)
Knowledge of Self (Denon)
The Believer (Baystate)
Out of print CD:
Currently Available CDs:
Destiny Is Yours (Steeplechase)
Black Saint (Black Saint)
With Randy Weston:
Spirits of Our Ancestors
With Woody Shaw:
Love Dance (currently released on CD in combination with another good Woody Shaw session)
With Lee Morgan:
Last Session (Blue Note)
Sonny Rollins is my favorite. Super smooth and like butter. I worked in the studio with him for several years. But there are a lot of other great ones.
Frank Morgan..."listen to the dawn"
There are many candidates here..The big round fat classic sound : Ben Webster,Coleman Hawkins, Scott Hamilton and Gerry Mulligan (he played baritone) lyrically: Stan Getz, Cannonball Adderly, Sonny Rollins, Paul Desmond (he's an alto guy) Then there is Coltrane all around and for some very cool, out stuff you could try Ornette Coleman, Eric Dolphy(alto and excellent bass clarinet and flute as well from him) Most of these guys pretty much played tenor exclusively. Too many to list and once again some great players are left off.
My favourite is Dexter Gordon's "Our Man in Paris". Sonny Rollins first Blue Note album is a close second (I forget the name ... I think it may just be called Sonny Rollins).
I have never liked Coltrane ... just not my thing.
You've got to have a Gerry Mulligan album also. Bari sax is just a fabulous instrument ... I'm a tenor player, and if a good bari didn't cost more than my car I'd have a bari too.
I'd like to add Gato Barbieri, Chapter I,II,III and Caliente.
Lots of greats listed so far, here are a few I haven't seen listed:
Jindra Dolansky (Uz Jsme Doma)
Marty Ehrlich (is this the same guy Frogman?)
Naruyoshi Kikuchi (Tipographica)
John Zorn (If this choice offends, check out Voodoo or some of the Masada discs).
Sorry if any of these are repeats. Alot of the above players (and probably hundreds more) are highly under appreciated, but (lucky for us) are doing great job of keeping an artform alive and growing.
Hey Sd, have you got a favorite Steve Lacy disc?
SDcampbell..are u a music scholar?...you are the man..great response....
The three best, in my opinion, are:
John Coltrane (e.g., with Johnny Hartman or "Bags and Trane")
Eric Dolphy (e.g., "Out to Lunch")
James Carter (e.g., "Chasin' the Gypsy")
I note that there have been some very recent posts to this old thread, so I guess people are still looking through the archives. In response to Phasecorrect: no, I'm not a music scholar, just someone who has loved jazz for more than 40 years. Many years ago, while in high school in Washington, DC, I did get to know the great jazz and classical guitarist, Charlie Byrd, and jazz has been a part of my life since then. During the mid-1980's, I developed a college course in jazz appreciation as part of a continuing credits program for high school teachers in the Seattle, WA, area, and during that time I really got serious about studying jazz as an art form. Some jazz critics refer to jazz as America's classical music, and that's probably a fair statement.
My real concern is that jazz is becoming a "museum" music. During the early decades of jazz, almost all musicians learned their craft by playing (clubs, orchestras, dances, etc.), whereas today most of the young jazz musicians develop their playing skills in classes (high school, college, music academies). For jazz to flourish again, it needs lots of new blood, more listeners (particularly in the African-American community), and wider air play by radio stations. Unfortunately, I think the reverse pattern is true.
One way to spread the jazz "message" is for people who love the music to share their knowledge with younger listeners, and I've tried to do that here on Audiogon. I appreciate the positive feedback I've gotten from other A-gon members.
Coming from Montreal, I am happy to report that the Montreal Jazz Festival is doing better every year. On the other hand the music presented cannot, in very many cases, be even remotely called "jazz". I am not hung up on nomenclature, believe me, but the powers-that-be at the Festival are stretching it every year. Sting has been presented last year as part of the Festival... I know, to use the words of a jazz immortal, there are only two kinds of music: good and bad. However, it's hard to get younger people interested in jazz when it is often so ill defined. The one thing is that when you go back in time, the defining lines are way easier to recognize. One last point, in a very European way, the Festival has always considered that the blues are a part of the greater realm of jazz. Maybe because I like the blues and "roots" music generally, I am very happy that this is the case. I know that when rock was closer to its blues roots, one way for a young person to reach jazz was by way of the blues; the progression being, let's say the Rolling Stones to Muddy Waters, to B. B. King to T-Bone Walker and then to Charlie Christian. I may be dreaming... Correct me if I'm wrong, but there seems to be no handy stepping-stones to jazz nowadays. In my case, if I remember, insofar as records go, inadvertently my older sister introduced me to jazz by getting a copy of "The Sound of Jazz" from the CBS record club and declaring it unlistenable before giving it to me. My other sister did the same with Bob Dylan's "Highway 61 Revisited" so hand-me-downs are not always bad! Aside from the fact that I have always been curious and loved all kinds of music, never minding whether it was "in" or "out", being rejected by my seniors couldn't hurt. One point is that it is very hard to impose things like a type of music on young people (or any age group for that matter) especially so if it is seen as complicated, elitist, intellectual. In the past jazz was seen as fun and alive. That's the only hope to bring new blood in. Make it fun and alive, without losing its essential qualities.