Hi, with this sort of thing, look to youtube, it shows how to make them and there are a shed full, of idea's , and will save you a packet,
- 51 posts total
- 51 posts total
I just want to clarify a few things that will hopefully help your understanding. The distributed bass array (DBA) is a concept discovered virtually simultaneously through empirical scientific experiments performed by Dr. Earl Geddes and Dr. Floyd Toole. Their basic results can be summarized as: the more subs utilized in a given room, the better the bass response performance becomes. They found there were significant performance gains up to 4 subs and only marginal performance gains beyond 4 subs.
The empirical scientific methodology utilized is important because it means their experiments can be independently and reliably duplicated by others, while obtaining highly similar results, following the exact same methodology. This is the process that establishes scientific truths or facts.
Geddes told his protege, Duke LeJeune, about his discovery and generously gave Duke his permission to use the concept if he wanted to. Duke said "thank you very much E.G.", proceeded to create a complete kit product based (bassed?) on this concept and named it The Audio Kinesis Swarm.
In turn, Duke has also been generous with this DBA concept. He readily admits that it performs equally well, along with it being scalable and likely performing even better, if a custom 4-sub DBA is created by using larger and/or higher quality passive or self-amplified subs. However, a custom 4-sub DBA will not only be more expensive, it will be more difficult to set up since the volume, crossover frequency and phase controls need to be optimally adjusted on each sub rather than just once for all 4 subs on the Swarm's amp/control unit.
I have a lot of experience and knowledge with using 1-4 subs but mainly in my 23'x16' room with an 8' ceiling. It may be best for you to first experiment with optimally positioning your 2 existing subs in your room, using either the REW or the sub crawl method, and evaluating the results. If reasonably satisfied, you always have the option to add a 3rd and/or fourth sub. You also have the option of buying a $200 Mini DSP unit which makes connecting and adjusting up to 4 subs easier.
Your choice should also be guided by whether you want very good bass performance throughout your entire room or just at a single designated listening seat. At least 3 subs are required for good bass throughout the entire room.
To answer some of your other questions, I wouldn't concern yourself with bass traps and other room treatments until you get the bass sounding right in your room. I'm also confident that 2-4 subs, properly positioned and configured, will integrate well with any pair of main speakers.
Hey Tim ,
First let me thank you and everyone else again for all of your time you have spent helping me learn about this amazing hobby I’m loving more every day. I am going to play with what I have coming for a bit and go from there. I hope to be able to move to a swarm system sooner than later. I am confused about getting the bass sounding right without any room treatments. There is a fair amount of reverberation in the room. Does sub crawl and REW work regardless of the reverb and any other room issues?
I strongly suggest you treat your room first. It alters everything, and in a good way. What choices and effort you put into your system without it may be moot, or wrong after.
So, any subwoofer solution will only alter frequencies below about 80 Hz.
The average wall panel / diffusor however works in the mid to treble.
You want to limit early reflections, eliminate coherent reflections (i.e. echoes) and you want the decay of the sound in the room to be smooth and quick across all the audio bands.
In addition to lack of clarity, the extra time it takes for a signal to decay in a room alters the tonal balance, much like a tone control. It's quite common in a modest living room for treatments to reduce the mid-treble energy, which also means the bass comes up.
A common report is "Wow my speakers sound so much bigger"
This may not be all you need, bass traps, EQ, or swarming, but I strongly encourage you to take the mid-treble room treatment seriously, and begin there.
I agree with everything erik_squires advised in his most recent post on this thread with the exception of totally treating your room first. He is a very knowledgeable audio enthusiast, however, he importantly lacks any personal experience with the use of the 4-sub swarm DBA concept.
He is absolutely correct in recommending room treatments for improved midrange, treble and stereo imaging performance but does not realize that bass room treatments are not necessary for optimum 4-sub DBA performance. The advice I offered to you on my last post, which was based on my personal 4-sub DBA knowledge and experience, was given with the understanding that bass room treatments may be beneficial in improving your system and room's midrange, treble and stereo imaging performance but that they're definitely not required to improve your system and room's bass performance.
My advice plan for your room is to get the bass sounding right first and then to optimize the midrange, treble and stereo imaging performance at your designated listening seat, which will definitely benefit from the deployment of strategically positioned room treatment panels for the absorption and diffusion of midrange and treble frequency sound waves and may even benefit from the deployment of strategically positioned room treatment panels and traps for the absorption of bass frequency sound waves.
My main reasoning is that all room treatments should be determined and deployed as a final step, after your subs, seating and main speakers have been optimally positioned in your room. I believe delaying all room treatments to this latter stage enables any professional room analysis to be more accurate and it'll allow you to more easily determine the effectiveness of any room treatments deployed.
I realize now that I should've included these details in my last post but, at that time, I thought this topic could be explained and discussed a bit later on.