Best Phono Stage within 2000 $

Is there a price difference between the Whest PS30.R and the PS30.RDT?

Dunno Isanchez .. I think there is because the 30RDT is kinda racing version compared to the normal 30R but I don't know how much.

Sorry about my misspelling, I meant to say Hello Gabriele

Don't apologize .. Hola Gabriel is well accepted too :-))

Hasta luego!

Agree on the Feickert azimuth adjustment software. I received a demo of the software from Dr. Feickert at CES and will be getting the software when I purchase his tonearm.

The education I received on azimuth adjustment was very valuable. While the software is not necessarily easy to use, once you get past the learning curve I can see it being an invaluable tool.

Basically The PS30dt uses a duel transfomer and the same parts as the Reference it cost a good bit extra but is really worth it as gives your more resolution
Curio glad you enjoy the phono stage wait till you get the Graham and then you hear another step up The phonostage has great resolution and yes there are now many High end manufactures that use this Phonostage
I hear the Reference is even better

Hello Clio09,

You'll love the Adjust+ once you get to use it. I find that once the setup process in the control panel is over , using the Adjust+ software is very straightforward.

I'm not aware of the Dr. Feickert tonearm. Are you referring to the new Kuzma 4point tonearm?

Best,

iSanchez

The Feickert tonearm is a built to spec 10.5" Jelco that is S shaped and has an adjustable head shell. If I recall the cost was around $1100 USD, but purchased with the Feickert table $1000 USD.

The Feickert table was used in both of the Avatar Acoustics rooms. One had the Kuzma arm the other the Feickert arm. Both set ups sounded very good.

Thanks for the clarification. I saw a tonearm in Dr. Feickert's website that matches your description. The Jelco tonearms are great. I'm sure you'll enjoy yours. From what I know, they perform x2 or x3 better than what the price suggests.

Best,

iSanchez

FWIW, the "Feickert" tonearm can be purchased here:

http://www.puremusicgroup.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=53

for around $400 U.S. I would think that would be a pretty good buy and would have sprung for one myself if my table could accomadate an arm of that length. Unfortunately it can't.

Why pay US$1000 for a "Feickert" 10.5 S Jelco arm when you get the same thing for much less without the "Feickert" at the front from the link provided by Hdm above.

Here is mine (10.5 S)on my Raven One which is identical.

http://www.feickert.de/engl/tonearm_1o5.html

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/jasnev/Hi%20Fi%20and%20Horology/raven1insitufront.jpg

Assuming the PMG and Feickert arms are built to the same specs then this would be a great deal.

Is there any evidence to suggest they are?

Actually I should qualify my earlier statement as they look identical rather than are confirmed identical.

While Jelco 10.5S and the Artisan Capriccio are similar, I believe the Artisan is a 9" tonearm rather than a 10.5" and is roughly the same as this:

Jelco 9" tonearm

David

Re: Feickert Adjust+

...Before I got Adjust+, I used a test record for setting up the azimuth, by playing an azimuth dedicated tract with my phono preamp in mono, and rotating the headshell until the signal from the L and R channels get canceled.

This has been discussed several times in the forums (and by Michael Fremer and others). Balancing the signal for L+R channel (which is what cancellation implies) is the wrong way to adjust azimuth. Azimuth depend only very weakly on the channel balance and other factors (cartridge, phonostage gain) influence channel imbalances more. The right way is to mimimize the crosstalk between channels.

The problem with this method is that, depending on the cartridge design, it's possible to have both L and R channels produce the same DB, but each channel could be out of phase in reference to the other. This condition produces undefined lower notes, muddy midrange and splashy highs. In other words, the sound is out of focus. With Adjust+, the phase angle of the L and R channels are set to match, even if, due to particular cartridge design, there is one channel producing +-DBs than the other channel. I went back and forth with both methods, and the sound with the Adjust+ is absolutely in focus. One I got acquainted with Adjust+, there is no going back.

Again to correct: Adjust+ does NOT match the phase angle of the L and R channels. Instead Adjust+ measures the phase of the crosstalk signal with respect to main signal and optimizes/matches both for the left and right channel. This is an important destinction (crosstalk vs. main signals) that is often misunderstood. It is of course no surprise that Adjust+ does much better than the wrong "channel balancing method".

Otherwise I completely agree - Feickert's Adjust+ is an excellent and innovative solution to the Azimuth problem.

Rene
Ph.D. Physics

"The Jelco 10.5S also looks similar to the Artisan Audio Capriccio tonearm (scroll down the page) sold by Galibier Design for $750."

Actually the Artisan more closely resembles the Jelco 250S (a 9" arm) which is available here on Audiogon for $290. The other 9" Jelco that looks interesting (and that I'm still considering and investigating-there's a rave review apparently in one of the British rags that I'm trying to get my hands on) is the 750D, also for sale on Audiogon for $450.

I really wanted the 10.5 for extra the bit of added mass to work with my wooded Denon 103R but only 9" arms for the Gyrodec unfortunately. So I'm down to the 750D or an SME 309 and am leaning toward the SME but who knows.

EAR 834P woth money left over for vinyl: I have two of them and to my ears and in my experience they are one the best values in audio. They do not lack for anything given good tubes installed (JJ 12ax7s).

Steve

Uhmm .. Guys .. this Jelco 10.5S smells like a very good product , and cheapo too .. looking on the web site Hdm posted here!
Any opinion or experience by someone that already uses it?

The Feickert 10.5 (i have been told) uses a slightly different bearing or something. It's NOT the same as the standard 10.5... this is what I have been told. Curio, I'll most likely get the MintLP as you are not the first to tell me about it, and you banging on about it makes me want it more.

The Whest PS.30RDT is dual transformer, matched transistors from the MC REF V, matched capacitors and channel matched to within nothing of a dB. The difference is quite amazing. I had a standard 30R and changed it for a 30RDT because of the HUGH increased in performance. I see you USA guys need to pay quite a bit for it.. In the UK a standard 30R sells for $1300 less!

Gabriel are you thinking of getting the Feickert 10.5? I'll talk to a friend of mine in Germany who is very well connected and ask him about the differences.

Rob

Robm1 - I'm thinking of getting the Feickert so any additional information on the differences versus the standard 10.5 would be valuable. You can email me offline if you like. Thanks

I'll know in the next day or so...but from what I have been told the Feickert is a lot better.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that the "Feickert" is a different tonearm than the 10.5 S on the Pure Music Group site based on:

1) the description of the bearing(s) and the rest of the arm on the Feickert and Pure Music websites which are almost verbatim

2) the physical appearance of the arms on both websites and

3) inquiries I made with respect to the tonearm. If someone can't send an e-mail asking a few questions then they probably deserve to pay five or six hundred dollars more for what certainly appear to be the same product. Wouldn't be the first time it's happened in "high end" audio. In my experience, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's usually a duck.

What I'm trying to find out now is if the 9" Jelco 750D has the same bearings as the 10.5 S. If I can establish that it does, it might swing my tonearm decision in favor of the 750D as the cost differential between it and the SME 309 is substantial and the 750D appears to have much higher effective mass which would potentially be a better match with my cartridge.

FWIW, I have absolutely no affiliation with either Feickert or Pure Music Group. Just trying to put out a bit of info which may save someone some money on what certainly appear to be the same arm.

So if Christian Feickert says it different -then you're saying he is a liar... is that right? The whole 'duck' thing doesn't always apply in life. You can't judge a book by it's cover is more applicable - I find.

Hdm - I appreciate the information. It will be interesting to hear what Chris Feickert says.

Since you've done the research, who would be good resources for me to contact to confirm whether or not these arms are one and the same? Combined with the information to be provided by Robm1 I'll then draw my own conclusion.

I'd fully expect Christian Feickert to say it's different based on his selling price. As a consumer, would I believe it? Probably not based on what I posted above. I would believe it if I received 1) physical proof of the differences (ie. if the bearings are different, an example of the superior vs. the inferior bearing(s) or similar physical proof) or 2) confirmation from Jelco that there are indeed differences. Both of which will very likely never happen. An OEM manufacturer like Jelco will never disclose differences like this even if they are different, nor will they disclose that the product is identical.

As a consumer, you can draw your own conclusions just as I can draw mine. Historically, though, if what I'm suggesting is true it would not very likely be the first time it has happened with Jelco, which have always done a huge, under the radar OEM business, and in doing so have produced great value tonearms. I currently use one: a Sumiko Premiere FT3. That's not to say, however, that others have not tried to cash in selling them for much more money. Do some research on the Graham Robin or the Koetsu tonearm for example.

When it gets right down to it, without physical proof, it's simply hearsay from both sides. As I've made perfectly clear, there's nothing in it for me, so draw your own conclusions, believe who you want to believe and buy any arm you want to.

The Feickert looks black bronzed while the normal Jelco 10.5S is chrome finish
I guess the Feickert is sold with a better phono cables while the normal Jelco with the cheapo one
Probably these are the differences from the two arms

IMHO

Actually you can also get the Jelco 10.5S in all black like mine here.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/jasnev/Hi%20Fi%20and%20Horology/OrtofonKB.jpg

But you don't get a phono cable for that price. The pinkish Jelco cable can be had separately for about $150-170 from memory. TW Acustic also bundles arebranded black 9 inch Jelco 250 tonearm as Vivid 1 and 2 arms as an option i believe.

If you haven'settled on the phonostage,please keep the Aqvox in mind.In its' balanced operational mode,it accepts cartridges in the .1mV range.Have owned some pricey units (Walker Sig/Ref,the custom Terra-Song,Vendetta Rsch and had experience with the Klyne,Pass XONO and a few others).The final gain adjustment on its' face is a very good feature.These units can be auditioned with a return policy.If the "poles" aren't closed,give it a shot.Definitely benefits from after-market PCs.

I have to admit I really have no experience with any of the phono stages mentioned here other than the Aqvox (I was an early adopter and own a Mk.1). That being said, I think that providing you are going to use it in balanced mode with a low output moving coil it offers up some very impressive performance and just sounds "right".

I'd agree, also, that it benefits from an upgraded power cord. The very inexpensive DH Labs cord (I did a DIY one with Marinco connectors for $70) works quite well and fleshes things out and warms things up a bit, which was just about Fremer's only criticism of the Aqvox in the rave review he wrote on it. I've heard it also benefits nicely with a fuse upgrade, which certainly won't break the bank.

But don't buy it unless you are prepared to run balanced with a low output coil. That's where the action is with the Aqvox.

Robm1, your information on the Feickert version of the Jelco arm is correct. Although similar in appearance to the standard Jelco arm, it is made exclusively for Feickert to their specifications and uses a different bearing design.

Feickert dealer.

Yes there is a price difference between the 30r and 30dt nearly $1000 dollars but you getting a lot closer to the reference in terms of resolution

It doesn't seem like the new PS.30RDT has hit the US shores yet. Is this correct?

Best,

iSanchez

I am also interested in this price range. But I don't want tubes in a phono stage. Does anyone have experience with buenote phono amps or goldenote. I haven't heard any of them but my shortlist in this price range would be:

goldenote Pamphili
Array PH-2
Acoustech PH1-P
West phonostage.20

My TT is a VPI scout with Lyra Dorian

I haven't had a chance to speak to my man in Germany about the Feickert tonearm...I'm hoping to next week as I'm in Germany then. The PS.30RDT is on it's way to the USA now. The price difference may be as much as the difference the PS.30R is UK-USA. I have a unit in the US and one in the Uk both bought in the UK because of the saving. £1699UK compared to $3995 is too much to throw away.

Go Whest.............!

Also consider the Graham Slee - one of them have adjustable equalisation - for your pre 70's records

Quality my dear man....

the slee units are toys in comparison. I saw the innards of one of the Slee units at the Walrus hifi shop website...not good.

Wow that is a big difference in price between the uk and USA; speaking from the other side of the ocean it is nice to see the role reserved!

I think it's a good time for anyone from outside the UK to purchase UK goods while the UK pound is weak. Even the Ortofon PW Windfeld is cheaper in the UK.

Tvad wrote:

What specifically is different about the bearing in the Feickert arm versus the Jelco?

Regular Jelco tonearms make use of a tip bearing in the vertical axis, whereas the Feickert runs on a special type of ball bearing. This improves bass control and gives more punch. Additionally, it has an oil damper that the regular Jelco arms do not.

Essential Audio wrote :

Regular Jelco tonearms make use of a tip bearing in the vertical axis, whereas the Feickert runs on a special type of ball bearing. This improves bass control and gives more punch. Additionally, it has an oil damper that the regular Jelco arms do.

Interesting. The Jelco 10.5 S arm listed on Puremusicgroup webpage mentioned about using gimbal bearing in the vertical axis and oil damping ( i can confirm this) too.
Hmmm..Both parties mentioned about the arms being build to their own specifications but they look identical and the quoted spec sounds similar too.

I think Jaspert .. there are some "hidden specs" we don't know.. and maybe Essentialaudio can't show us on a public forum :-)