Brilliant responses, really impressed. Audio Note (Hemp?), Harbeth and DeVore are names that often come up. Joseph Audio sounds like one to watch out for. Tannoy, I'm quite familiar with.
By rich timbre I guess I mean that you can clearly hear the harmonics in a voice or in an instrument as as you can hear the pitch, loudness or edge detail. Many speakers can do the start of a note well but not it's body - all attack and little decay. All frequencies of sound including Bass can have beautiful harmonics (I find that the ones around 4-8kHz can be particularly delightful).
Perhaps it's not strictly accuracy I'm after - I'd much sooner have exaggerated tonal colour than slightly muted. For some like me it serves as a drug when it comes to listening. Of all the critiques trying to explain the lasting popularity of the Beatles music, the best ones for me focus on their diverse use of timbre and tonal colour. Compared to many who followed their recordings (admittedly in an age of analogue recording and valve/ tube desks) do seem to exhibit 'a greater "rainbow" of timbres and tonal colors' especially from Rubber Soul onwards.
I find that Classical music and Jazz really become captivating when it's easy to distinguish the sound of the instruments rather than just the notes they are playing. Wood sounds like wood, metal has it's natural sheen, wind instruments sound different again. Piano can either sound plain and two dimensional, or it comes alive as you get to hear all the tones and micro tones. A real sense of someone at work.
Tonal colour is not merely edge detail, it's infinitely more than that. Plenty of speakers can do leading edge detail well, and seem lightning fast whilst they do it, but few seem to handle the body and decay of the notes as well.
It is difficult to speak about tonal colour without also speaking about warmth, especially in the midrange (Bose anybody?), but I don't think it's necessarily dependent upon warmth. It's just that cold sounding systems can often expose their monochromatic nature far more readily.
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The often neglected subject of timbre in modern designs could be a major factor in explaining why some connoisseurs like Peter Qvortrup of Audio Note casually state that in their opinion audio reproduction has gone backwards in the last half century. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/01/25/peter-qvortrup-high-fidelity-the-de...They are talking predominantly of the era in which tubes and high efficiently drivers were used both in analogue recording and playback systems. Innumerable lush, tonally rich recordings such as those by Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Doris Day, Nat Cole, Peggy Lee, and innumerable Jazz artists still survive today as testament to fabulous recording quality of those times. The main focus in the modern era often seems geared towards the pursuit of cold fine detail through ever increasing bit rates and oversampling techniques. Impressive in the short term but rarely satisfying in the long. At least for some. One seems to appeal mainly to the intellect, the other to the heart. It's always difficult to generalise but I think Qvortrup is basically right if you're looking for music reproduction which speaks predominantly to the heart. Generally speaking, I've heard few loudspeakers that employ paper as a cone material which sounded awful, and even fewer that used polypropylene that sounded great. So many great suggestions here, the Joseph Audio ones being intriguing with their aluminium drivers and the Focal Sopra review which namechecked another metal driver loudspeaker, the fabulously expensive Vivid Audio Giya G2. Thanks for all the suggestions, it's reassuring to know that timbre has not been forgotten by everyone. |
@prof "I'm pretty nuts about correct, organic sounding timbre so that's always been job one for any speaker I have owned. The problem has been for me that instrumental timbre often doesn't sound organic, but more glazed and electronic/plastic through most speaker systems. I had usually found the best I could do was pick a speaker (and with judicious amp choice) that had traits consonant with what I like about real life sounds. A number of speakers I've owned and ones I've liked have had a somewhat "woody" character or timbral tone because that at least imparted an organic quality to sounds that helped many things sound more "real" to me - from acoustic guitars, string instruments, even the "woodiness" of the reed in a saxophone. Or drum sticks, and even to some degree voices. (I'm not talking about some ridiculous level of woody coloration, but more the sense that the sound is made of organic material, vs plastic, steel, and electrons).
The Devores are one of those speakers that to my ears has a canny bit of coloration that is very consonant with how real sounds impress me, so in that sense they often sound more "natural" to me than other strictly more neutral (or other non-neutral) speakers.
The Joseph speakers are more like the Hales speakers I have owned (and still own), where I get the sense of much reduced distortion/coloration revealing timbral qualities. So I find the sound a bit more varied from such speakers. But then, they also sometimes miss some of the particularly papery, organic sense of touch from the Devores, and some of the realistic fullness and weight. So....it's always compromises."
Yes this woody" character or timbral tone that at least imparts an organic quality to the sound is also my starting point for choosing a loudspeaker (or headphones) and has been for years. That "glazed and electronic/plastic" sound emanating from far too many speakers bores me quickly.
However, unlike your good self I have been unable to progress beyond this point, instead promising myself to perhaps dabble with tubes one day when the kids are older. Especially after reading some of the wonderful articles by the late Harvey "Gizmo" Rosenberg.
After owning various Tannoy loudspeakers, including 15 inch DCs I get the impression that the DeVore speakers might share some of the DNA with the classic Tannoys. More of the same perhaps slightly more refined. It's great to know that others are also looking further in this particular direction.
Thanks again for your pointers and putting into words what, for me at least, still remains largely uncharted territory.
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@analogluvr + @prof
I'm glad you both brought up the issue of that "warm woody" sound. What prof writes about DeVores I found also applies to many of the larger Tannoys (even the slim floor standing Revolution 3s share this quality. When you first hear it you immediately think it must be wrong, too much mid bass, too warm, can't be right, and yet...it sounds so lovely, so real that convinces you that most other speakers must be wrong.
I have to agree that the line 'you start to notice a warm colouration in all pieces of music that is being imposed by the speaker.' also applies to my experience. It's just that it's so emotionally satisfying, especially with some classic EMI 1950s and 60s recordings where it feels like everything has aligned and this is as close to perfect as you're gonna get!).
In my experience this is the best I have heard at home and almost the best anywhere else. However things might change as I'm hoping to get to the Audio Show 2018 next month at Leamington Spa. It will my first in about a decade and the good news is that Vivid Audio and Audio Note UK will be there.
If we get to hear some exotic US brands at the show, well that would be the 'living end'. Yes, I know, I have read too many Stan Lee comics.
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@colin44ct357 yes the JBL C1s are very lively and amazing for the size and money. Not a final speaker (if there is such a thing!) but great fun.
They use some in the community centre and you think, is all that sound really coming from them? Did sound slightly sharp but that might have been the mic setup etc.
Talking of final speakers has anyone heard any of the Linkwitz speakers? If anyone could get accurate timbre out if a design, I guess Siegfried Linkwitz might.
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ProAcs are getting a few mentions. I've only heard the Future One's many years ago but they did sound good to me on the end of some Marantz gear. It was at a London show and Ken Ishiwata was there.
The Future One's were slightly pyramid shaped floorstanders with an open back behind the midrange unit!
Some of the people with me thought they sounded fabulous, the best in show. I was in such a hurry to hear everything else that I didn't stay too long to listen to this strange looking expensive speaker from this unknown brand!!
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@ nakdoc, Hi! Yes it's fair to say that all speakers must either be adding or subtracting to timbre (assuming a completely neutral speaker doesn't exist).
So far we have many recommendations and suggestions for the all of the following:
Devore Fidelity 0/96 and /93 (5)
Sonus Faber (5)
+Franco Serblin's Ktema or Accordo
Audio Note (4)
Daedalus Audio (4) the entire line solid wood speakers and very natural and engaging
Big Tannoys (4)
BBC designs eg Harbeth Spendor Graham (4)
Vienna Acoustics (3)
ProAc (3)
Legacy Audio Aeris (2)
Legacy Audio Focus SE
Joseph Audio speakers (2) very accurate but with a particularly grain/haze-free sound. Just the way colorful pebbles are more richly revealed through a clean, clear stream than through one full of fine silt, I find the timbral colors of voices and instruments seem more finely and purely revealed from the JA speakers - a greater "rainbow" of timbres and tonal colors seem to get through.
and mentions for the following:
KEF reference, KEF Blades
Diapasón,
Ohm Walsh
Focal Sopra 2
Amphion
Gold Note
Wilson Benesch
Thiel Audio
Triangle Magellan,
JM Reynaud
Ilumnia Magister
Audio Physic Libras
Meadowlark Audio
Wilson Alexandrias
Magnepan x.7
Klipschorns
Tonian Labs
Totem Acoustic Element Metal
Vandersteen 3A Sigs with 2wq subwoofers
I am a little surprised to see Wilson get so little mention.
Anyway, what does all this tell us? I suppose the old adage still holds true, you have to get out there and listen to as many designs as you can if you are serious about finding satisfaction.
It also can't be a coincidence that piano music was mentioned quite a few times as well. Perhaps no other instrument has such a wide range of contrasting timbres on offer. Think its time to give the old Ashkenazy disc a spin.
The problem is, unless you are very lucky, it's virtually impossible to listen to half of them with any degree of ease. I'd love to give the Joseph Audio speakers a listen, the design sounds (ouch!) interesting. I'd also love to hear some Klipschorns and Sonus Faber models at least once, how could any audiophile not? What about Daedalus Audio?
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'm sure each of the above suggestions will all have plenty to offer. We just have to get out there and listen.
Failing that, do our research and take a calculated risk. Good luck to everyone.
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@audiokinesis, good point. Guess that's one of the reasons why some rooms are deemed good and others not (along with any obvious bass resonance modes). How much life/ reflected sound you want in a room will always be a matter of personal choice. I'm pretty sure I'd prefer a more lively room than a dead one others may differ.
I still think changing the speaker is the easier option for mist of us, and am inclined to believe that a great speaker should still sound good in any room. |
The Room or the Recording? Why is audio so complicated? What's all this nearfield business? It does make sense that if you want to hear the speaker primarily then you can either sit close up or if possible take it to a quiet place outdoors and do your listening there. On the other hand if you want to hear the effect of the room then you should sit as far away from the speaker itself as possible. Then there are good rooms which can add via reflection to the direct/ original sound. Since no one listens in an anechoic chamber some room effect must be taken into consideration by the designer - eg dispersion patterns, placement etc. Perhaps audiokinesis has developed some form of refined DSP (unlike those crude ones found on many surround sound systems) which can subtly change the sound of your room. Perhaps it is possible to increase 'sympathetic' room reflections which could give a sense of increased realism. Sounds phenomenally difficult but it's certainly interesting. As if all this wasn't complicated enough then there's the issue of the Fletcher-Munson/ Equal Loudness curves which prove that ours ears cannot hear frequency (bass to treble) in a linear fashion. The following article suggests that as the actual loudness/volume changes, the perceived loudness of the bass and treble frequencies that our brains hear changes. The actual frequencies don't, it's just that we hear them differently. Nature gives more importance to the midrange frequencies. https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/- At low listening volumes – mid range frequencies sound more prominent, while the low and high frequency ranges seem to fall into the background.
- At high listening volumes – the lows and highs sound more prominent, while the mid range seems comparatively softer.
I'm not sure what all this means for our perception of timbre, but it certainly makes evaluating loudspeakers more tricky. I guess most of us do need tone controls after all. Anyway, until audiokinesis can demonstrate otherwise, and it will be fantastic if he can, then we still rely primarily upon the speaker cone for our perception of recorded sound.
I'm guessing, and it's only a guess, that DSP will be the future of all reproduced sound once all the software algorithms, processors, and hardware have advanced sufficiently. |
@fleschler , I wouldn’t worry. Until we get a sound indistinguishable from reality or at least one that listeners cannot identify as a recording, it’s always going to be a matter of choosing the compromises you can best live with. Our imaginations can always try and do the rest.
Your comments regarding best seating in the concert hall also apply to the cinema albeit to a lesser extent. Except that it’s usually the case of finding the least worst seats - usually in the middle of the middle rows. I’ve almost given up watching superhero films there unless I’m looking for a low level headache. Far more enjoyable at home, just need a bigger television. It’s funny looking back how we used watch on 21" screens.
@prof yes this pleasing ’bathroom’ effect can obviously add tonal richness. It’s never seemed to matter to the music industry whether it’s seen as accurate or not. In order to make vocals sound fuller
they tend to use compression and effects (eg double tracking, delay etc) rather than employ sympathetic room reverb. So I guess they, in their own way, are trying to make the sound more interesting. No one is seriously trying to make the vocals sound thinner and weaker.
It’s this pleasing warmth/ timbre that is being sought.
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Exactly. The notes might be the same but the harmonics are totally different. That's why good speakers allow you to hear differences in guitars, violins etc.
I wonder whether some people could be called harmonically deaf in the same way some are said to be colour blind?
If so, this whole thread would seem pointless. The whole business about how we hear and especially interpret sound is individual to each of us.
Keeping a complex subject as simple as possible by focussing on speakers alone there has been a lot of support here for those made by DeVore Fidelity.
John DeVore seems to be a great example of the enthusiast made good. Sometimes I wish I had thought of going into building loudspeakers before leaving school. There are worse ways of spending your working life!
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@dracule1 seems to be a very elusive master of disguise popping up only very rarely in audio circles.
They seek him here, they seek him there.. |
@nonoise , I agree that valve amplifiers can add to our perception of harmonics/instrument timbres, but to keep it simple I wanted to concentrate on loudspeakers only.
I hope you can agree that we've had plenty of good suggestions worth exploring if anyone is interested in this all too often neglected topic.
All of the following suggestions are of potential interest to anyone looking for above average reproduction of timbre -
Devore Fidelity 0/96 and 0/93
Sonus Faber
+Franco Serblin's Ktema or Accordo
Audio Note
Daedalus Audio
Tannoy DCs
BBC Harbeth, Spendor, Graham
Vienna Acoustics
ProAc
Legacy Audio Aeris / Focus SE
and Joseph Audio speakers got a special mention too.
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@prof , yes live v recorded demos would be a great way to show off loudspeakers.
Gilbert Briggs (Wharfedale) used to do this back in the 1950s in absolutely huge arenas like London's Festival Hall.
Surely someone big like B&W could do something similar now.
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@nonoise , I agree wholeheartedly that what comes before the loudspeaker matters. When it comes to vinyl sources. you have to get as good a turntable as you can.
However when it comes to digital sources, amplifiers (SS) and cables, I'm firmly in the Peter Aczel camp.
I also live in fear that I will eventuality just give up and end up listening to vinyl via a pretty tube amp and high efficiency speakers. By then no doubt fully convinced the entire industry took a wrong turn some 60 years ago and have been duping us all in the process ever since. |
@prof , I guess times are hard and margins are tight. Still there must be someone out there with the budget capable of organising this.
A live piano recital behind a curtain would be a pretty stern test for any speaker. Or perhaps the pianist could just mime upon the switch to recorded sound, (presumably on tape).
As long the hands were hidden from view, it wouldn't matter too much if the pianist was in vision or not. |
@ashoka, you're right. If they took timbre and harmonics into consideration I'm sure that quite a few 'high end' speakers would be seen as hopelessly flawed. |
@dracule1 , sorry for any misunderstanding but I was referring to the ever elusive Rich Timbre.
See, he's even more difficult to pin down than we thought. |
@fleschler Wow! I applaud your energy and resolve to have thoroughly investigated the sonic properties of 2 loudspeaker brands considered to be near the state of the art, Magico and Wilson.
I must admit that I am less surprised about your reaction to Alon Wolf's creations. Could it be that in his determined pursuit of ultimate scientific truth that some of the natural warmth of music has been left behind? High tech material, but too much cold truth resulting in 'sound but not music'.
As for Wilson, I am a little more surprised. Most reviews praise Wilson speakers with few reservations other than the price. In fact it was only the other day at a show that I heard great feedback on Wilson speakers from a fellow visitor. Some of the models might not be to everyone's taste visually but the Sabrina and Sasha seem to be easier on the eye.
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@david_ten , I think the life of us audiophiles is like one long exercise in self-critique. Forums like this could almost be loosely termed as a self help group!
Audiophiles do mainly tend to be men, but there are no barriers of age, race, occupation or income. Just a common pursuit of personal sonic ecstasy.
Of course we can be an impressionable and sensitive lot. I intensely dislike my Hi-Fi being criticised, although I’m not as bad as I used to be. But you can also easily say the same for many car owners.
I try to take the impressions of fellow enthusiasts far more seriously than any magazine reviewer because they generally seem to ring more truer, and feel more real world.
I bet its almost impossible to be completely neutral as a paid reviewer because of all the industry politics and various vested interests. Designers and manufacturers probably feel hyper sensitive to any criticism. If I was in their shoes, I know that I would. All that time, effort and money invested.
I am still slightly puzzled as to why Magico speakers don’t get a universal thumbs up, the way say for example DeVore do. Alon Wolf seems to be far too meticulous in his approach as to not have canvassed a wide range of opinion before unleashing his products. Speaking as someone who has never heard a pair I wonder whether it’s something to do with that aluminium cabinet or the graphene drivers?
Still, enormous credit to Alon, and all the other designers out there trying to push the sonic barriers back further and further.
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After weeks of waiting I finally got to visit The UK Audio Show 2018 (Woodland Grange, UK) at the weekend. They had some impressive speakers there including the curvy, strokeable Vivid Kaya 90 - amazing dynamics, scale, imagery and dare I say it, the merest hint of metallic tinged timbre? There were many other designs such as the organic sounding large bookshelf Audio Notes (AN-K) and some small bookshelves in the Malvern Research Audio room filling the room with Abbey Road via vinyl/tubes which begged the question - where have you hidden the subwoofer? The Arcadis EB2s sounded impressive and clean but a touch thin until I sat sightly further back. Then the sound became satisfyingly well balanced. It was a thoroughly enjoyable show with plenty of tea and coffee stations close to hand. Many of the dealers and designers were willing to take requests to escape the usual tinkly piano Jazz. So we got to hear the Beatles (Norwegian Wood, Girl), Beethoven (piano), Donovan (Sand and Foam), Steely Dan (Babylon Sisters), Diana Krall (Temptation), Peggy Lee (Fever), Dire Straits (You and Your Friend) amongst others. Sources included vinyl, CD, and quite a lot of streaming via phone. All of them sounded good, with vinyl often sounding close to CD, clean with very low surface noise. As good as the various designs were there was only one loudspeaker there that left me unable to find any fault sonically, and that was the Kerr Acoustic K320 ( https://www.kerracoustic.com/k320) Presented in a garish blue firing down a fair sized room, about 10 x 5m with a large window behind them, it was simply delightful in the way they played different genres of music - with all the tonal/timbral colour intact. They remained engaging and surefooted throughout the entire frequency range at both high and low volume, and had probably the cleanest treble I have ever heard from any loudspeaker. Just a beautifully attractive colourful sound. Easily the best in show for me, and that included it's bigger brother the K100 which I felt was reference quality impressive in scale and dynamics (reminding me of the Naim Ovator 6000) but altogether more monochromatic than the always enjoyable K320s. In fact I can't say I have ever heard a better sounding or more enjoyable loudspeaker at any show, and that includes Avantgarde Trio's and the similar sounding ProAc Future Ones. |
It is not strange that after over a century of development that there is still no consensus amongst audiophiles as to which loudspeakers provide the greatest fidelity to the signal. Heck, some still believe nothing beats the wax cylinder for reproduction of the human voice.
What is surprising is the sheer diversity of designs, techniques and technologies. What began as a simple horn soon developed into the moving coil system followed by the electrostatic principle. Yet at each phase the new technology merely complimented the previous one rather than replace it.
For example we see moving coil drivers alongside BMR units alongside ribbon units and even plasma ones for treble.
We might see beryllium, polypropylene, radial, paper (doped/undoped), kevlar, aluminium, graphene etc all tried as cone materials amongst others such as hemp.
Then we come to the cabinets where we might find ultra rigid versus lossy designs, damped versus undamped, sealed box versus ported or transmission line designs. Sometimes there is no box at all as in open baffle or electrostatics.
Cabinet materials might include MDF, Baltic Birch Plywood, aluminium, bamboo, or some form of composite design materials.
Even the number of drive units can vary anywhere from just one to over a dozen. All this diversity begs the question of whether we are actually making any progress or are simply going around in circles?
After all this time there's still so little that is commonly accepted and agreed upon by designers and loudspeakers still remain by far the weakest link in the audio chain as far as measurable distortion goes.
So the choice of loudspeaker might therefore remain a choice of taste rather than a matter of one design being superior to another. Especially once cabinet effects and artefacts have been substantially reduced as we are beginning to now see even in relative budget designs such as the Q Acoustics Concept series.
As far as the search for timbre / instrumental colour goes there doesn't seem to be any consensus there either other than it probably depends upon primarily the drive unit material itself. And it's kind of reassuring that paper is still employed in many high end designs.
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@mapman , interesting point. Clothes have a function to keep us warm, cover us up, make us look better, define which tribe we belong to etc
Loudspeakers should be attempting to reproduce the recording as accurately as possible. Preferably having as little / zero character of their own. In a perfect world you would have a believable field of sound existing entirely free from it’s source. Should they be a matter of taste?
@fsonicsmith , when I found out that K320s used a ribbon tweeter and were a transmission line design I was surprised. I then began to listen hard for any dispersion anomalies that I had read about with ribbons, I couldn’t hear any. I was also listening out for any hint of sibilance/crossover distortion (hate it) and there was only the mildest amount on Peggy Lee’s Fever. Probably the cleanest treble I have heard on any loudspeaker. It didn’t have the explosive dynamics of the Vivid Kaya 90s, but those were almost scary at volume.
I had to return to the room at the end if the show just to check if I hadn’t imagined it all. They sounded exactly the same, even after I had heard several other designs in between.
If I had the space I would get a pair in white immediately, (hopefully they come with a grille) but my circumstances probably mean selling my current speakers (which are far more childproof) first.
Hmm, what to do? |
@prof , as you say loudspeaker problems are basically engineering problems and until this century's Ed Villchur comes along and radically advances the technology it is going to remain a case of shuffling compromises.
I hate treble coarseness, as well as a bleached tone like yourself, fsonicsmith couldn't abide a bloated bass, Duke said he didn't enjoy a flat frequency response so as things stand mapman is right - it is a case of horses for courses. At least until a major technological breakthrough arrives. Can't some audiophile at CERN
or MIT have a look at this in their spare time? Do they get any spare time?
Duke summed it up really well in that a speaker must do something really well to get your attention, and since they can't do everything well you have to decide which compromise you can live with. As he said it's up to the designer to try to make sure that these compromises are not deal breakers.
Unfortunately for us, the only sure way of knowing this is by listening. On the plus side, it's a way of getting to know yourself better. Oh the lengths we have to go to in the pursuit of beauty. |
@toetapaudio,
I went to the show to mainly hear the Vivid Audio and the Audio Note speakers. I was a little concerned that there weren't more familiar names (Arcam, B&W, Marantz, Sony, Tannoy, ProAc, Living Voice, Rega, Pro-ject etc) on show. So naturally I was pleasantly surprised by the sound quality of some of the unfamiliar products on offer.
It's often said that hotel rooms are often not a good place to demonstrate Hi-Fi but this didn't seem to be true last Saturday. I did notice that the smaller rooms tended to be playing bookshelf speakers, makes sense. Also, there seemed to careful use of the volume control this time. Some of the previous shows I remember were almost guaranteed to give you a headache by lunchtime.
It was also touching to see enthusiasts, (designers and dealers), who could probably easily make a good living by other far less risk means, choosing to try their hand in audio. Good luck to all of them (except the quick buck cable peddlers - only joking, I'm probably just jealous).
Anyway, for any potential visitor I can recommend taking some form of notes as you go from room to room, via smartphone in my case. It can help focus your thoughts and is a great memory aid at the small risk of looking like a good plated audio nerd.
A good plan/ route of action is also useful as it's all too easy to miss certain rooms in the melee or excitement if the music grips you too much. I seem to have missed both the Townshend room and the bookshelf Kerr Acoustics room - and probably a few others.
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It’s refreshing when a designer appears to have similar goals to your own.
So then what about Zu? Sean Casey seems to often mention the importance of tone and harmonics in his designs.
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@invictus005, I agree that ’The market is filled with anemic audiophile speakers. And they sound edgy and boring and unengaging’. This can also apply to some very expensive designs too.
Also, "This is why audiophiles seek out speakers that have larger cones, or cones made out of paper, or more resonant real wood enclosures". How could I not agree, having owned Tannoys for the last 10 years?
However, I would go further and say that for a loudspeaker to reproduce timbre accurately, (ie not lose it via the cone materials / crossover issues or smother it under cabinet resonance ’mush’), it must have excellent handling of harmonics.
The fact that a speaker usually needs two or more drivers separated by a crossover to cover the audio band can only make the task of reproducing timbre accurately incredibly difficult, especially when considering things happening on a harmonic level.
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Frequencies and Sound Explained #4 Harmonics and Harmonic Distortion https://youtu.be/FzeZbJceKZEInteresting Youtube clip on harmonics. I had to watch it a few times before it made much sense. It seems as if all sound is composed of fundamental notes which also have harmonic counterparts occurring at higher multiples of the fundamental frequency. Its these harmonic counterparts that help identify timbre (tonal colour). I guess some might find the narrator's findings on tube and transistor amps problematic - but the situation seems even worse when it comes to loudspeakers. It looks like no one even attempts to measure %THD (total harmonic distortion) - not even in high end designs! |
The problems with measuring THD (Total Harmonic Distortion) in loudspeakers especially seem to be legion. https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audibility-of-distortion-at-bass/total-harmonic-disto...Not the easiest of reads, my head still hurts, but this following extract may be especially relevant to our perception of timbre. "One more factor that can make it more difficult to detect distortion is personal familiarity and understanding of the intended reproduction. For example, most people know what a middle C note of a piano is supposed to sound like, but how many people know what a fist fight between two robots from another world is supposed to sound like? Furthermore, the timbre of musical instruments are heavily defined by the harmonic resonances of the instrument’s fundamental, and these resonances typically occur at even order harmonics, which is considered musical since an even order harmonic is always the same note in an upper octave. These even-ordered harmonic resonances of musical instruments can make the detection of even ordered harmonic distortions very difficult, since they are ‘tuned’ to the instrument’s fundamental. On the other hand, this fact makes odd-order harmonic distortion a bit easier to hear since the frequency of that distortion doesn’t cleanly relate to the fundamental, at least in the scale of conventional musical notation. In other words, it’s easier to detect ‘off’ components in a sound we are familiar with. If we have no reference by which to judge the sound, we have no way to know if what we are hearing is apart of the input signal or a distortion in the output. To tie this into the previous discussion, one test showed that even trained listeners were not able to identify as much as 30% distortion peaks from material which had a dense spectra with a high amount of transients and synthesized sounds." Hopefully, in the not too distant future the type of data revealed by tests such as CEA-2010 will start to become more readily available to any potential customers of high quality loudspeakers. |
prof, I think you're right about the underdamping of the speaker. I recall getting a wonderfully unrestricted breathing bass from a pair of Rega bookshelves when driven by a cheap 7 watt amp.
The sheer unfettered free sound coming from those small boxes was highly compulsive listening. Rega don't give much away regarding construction but as the speakers don't feel particularly heavy I guess some form of thin wall cabinetry
(in best British style) must be involved.
I also remember that you had to turn up the volume to get them singing in this fashion. The timbre of the free flowing bass was as good as I've heard. If only the midrange had been as expressively free.
Still, whilst not being ideal as main speakers, mainly in terms of scale, openness and bandwidth, they remain far too good for me to ever pass on.
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Yes who are all these characters, Rich Timbre, Impedance and THD? What is their relationship with reproduced sound quality?
It's funny how so many simple things aren't really very simple at all once you start to have a closer look.
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