BEST INTERCONNECT FOR $25 EACH?

He also makes great sounding Duelund XLR cables :-)

I hope you have a chance to listen to the two sets of RCAs soon.

Duelund not deulund! 

I went with custom on here from grannyring aka acoustic barbecue. 

They are 16awg deulund wire with Cardas connectors. 

I’m curious of what you went with? I have the Belden 8402 w/Switchcraft RCAs between my amp and preamp and am thinking about getting another pair to connect my Node 2 (analog). I’m eyeballing that guy in Greece too. I also have an older pair of Kimber Silver Streaks that are lost in my man cave that I could dig up.

Are you looking for rca or XLR? if looking for rca, look at the aduioquest golden gate at 70 a pair for 1M retail, most stores will offer a discount. Only problem with them are they are only done as a pair not single. Or even the big sur at 109 a pair retail. They use A better copper same copper as the higher end 400 dollar each cables. I had golden gate on my system and upgraded to water, and only noticed a slight difference in sound quality. Every system has a preference for a certain cable. I tried Kimber, cardas and even transparent and I liked the sound of AQ min my system better. Hope that helps. 

Thanks Dave! I’m working on two systems. I think I need some XLR ICs now. Looks like I’m back to square one for them. Lol 

This has been a great thread and I have learned alot. Craig thanks for the great question. Not recommending a particular IC I may suggest that after your ICs settle in and you are comfortable with them you may consider purchasing another set recommended in this thread. Although I use clear day as my primary IC I swap in another of my other three sets for a change, s imilar to when I swap out tubes for a change. Its fun and, for me, for a different sound once in a while. But most important I hope you enjoy your new purchase, youve done your homework well. Dave

Inexpensive ICs that seem to be well made: Esoteric U.S.A. found on E-bay. Some length hard to fine. I have used 1 Meter pairs (~$12)  in modest systems.

Cables are system and sound preference dependent. The builder of Clear Day cables is a great guy, really great guy. Owned several of his cables over the years. Just too thin sounding and a tad bright for me. This is based on my gear and my preference for full bodied sound with weight and bloom. However, I have found all pure silver cables to sound this way over the years in my various rigs. The Duelund cable will sound better with nice Cardas RCAs, 16 gauge wire and careful building technique. Since there is no Duelund brand cable we can all use as a standard or base it is impossible to assume the comments on one Duelund build pertain to all.

I would go with the larger 16 gauge also. I have since got back in touch with @dopogue and he has put his clear day interconnects back on in his system and said because the clear days interconnects were more ’musical’ than the Duelunds. And that is NOT to say the Duelunds are bad in any way.

I did reach out to the grannyring guy you bought yours from and he suggested I look elsewhere for purchasing.

So if anybody out there in agonland has a set of clear day interconnects, I need one more set/pair to complete what I need with the clear day double shotguns speaker wire I bought from the same seller of the clear day interconnects here on agon. And the price of the clear day cable interconnects cost about exactly the same as the grannyring Duelund interconnects.

Thanks Tyray!

And now from you I know to be patient with the burn in time. 

The recommendations were split between 20awg and 16awg, and I went with the 16awg for now. 

I think I read it really comes down to matching the impedance of the system or something like that. 

@craigert, I think the little time you put in doing your research has paid off really well. So good in fact you have also helped you fellow 'audiophiles'. @dopogue is using Duelund 20g interconnects over his highly regarded clear day cable interconnects. Now that says a lot. Please see below link and thanks for posting.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cable-burn-in/by_member?username=dopogue

It’s the rca connects blue jeans used that I just can’t get over. 

@cleeds @tls49 

Although we do not seem to agree about ground loops, nevertheless, thank you for the discussion.

My set up is in my living room close to my TV and cable box so I would use shielded.  Belden LC-1 is what I would have recommended but only Blue Jeans sells that cable and you didn't want them. 

Haha magic fairy dust is expensive. 

Yeah who would have thought that shielding closed the sound but I guess it  makes sense now. Like I said, I’ll try it without shielding, and add it if I need to do it. 

I literally knew nothing when I started. This was all very interesting and I’m glad the guys in here stuck with me until I understood. 

I bought good interconnects for about $25 . 
Listening now and it sounds wonderful.  The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is unshielded I thought the more shielding the better, shows what I know lol. 

@craigert. Yes magic fairy dust is expensive. 

I think it’s funny how people keep popping in and asking if this thread is serious. Although I didn’t know what I was talking about when I started the thread, I have learned that if you make them or have them made, you don’t have to spend a million dollars and CAN actually have nice ICs for $25.  

Had i I not had them made for me by Granny ring, I’m sure I could have purchased some Belden wire, silver laced solder, and some $2 switchcraft 3502aau rca connectors for my budget of $25 and been just fine. 

After knowing what I know now, it makes me think the guys asking if this thread is serious are the stupid ones, because they must be overpaying. Lol 

terry9

@cleeds

"we can say a "ground loop" is formed whenever two or more grounds are at different potentials"

I don’t think so. From Wiki, "A ground loop is caused by the interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground, so a closed conductive loop is formed."

You don’t seem to understand what a ground loop actually is, and neither do you seem willing to understand it. So it’s no wonder that you’re confused about how to cure or prevent the problem.

The link provided by @tls49 provides a fairly succinct explanation of what a ground loop is.

Have a nice day.

terry9

Read the entire article at Wiki. It states what cleeds has said.

And this,

https://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/dir-017/_2498.htm

And no, you have not addressed my concerns. It’s clear your opinion is different and you are certainly entitled to it. Since my thinking is in line with all the cable manufacturers, nothing you say can change it. It’s just too hard to believe that they have been making cables wrong for so many years.

@cleeds 

"we can say a "ground loop" is formed whenever two or more grounds are at different potentials"

I don't think so. From Wiki, "A ground loop is caused by the interconnection of electrical equipment that results in there being multiple paths to ground, so a closed conductive loop is formed."

Closed.

Two components with ground pins connected to different grounds, whose grounds are electrically connected e.g. with a shield, forming a loop. Or, a line inside a balanced cable connecting the grounds of two pieces of equipment, plus a shield also connecting same, forming a closed conductive loop.

"What would be the purpose of running all the grounds through the pickup arm and cartridge?"

Exactly my point.

@tls49 

I think that this addresses your concerns as well.

Now let's return control of this thread to the OP, don't you think?

"Your connection scheme may work in your system, but I know for sure it wouldn’t work in mine. I can’t see any value in using an amplifier - as opposed to the preamplifier - as the common ground connection."

+1 cleeds

Many years ago when amps and preamps began using 3 prong AC cords, it was recommended that if there was a hum in the system, then use a cheater plug on the amp. I actually heard this at a CES show from a highly respected amp designer.

"Also, the term ’source tend’ seems ambiguous to me"

terry9

That’s why I tend to say sending end, no confusion. If you think sending end is not the correct way to connect shield/drain, then you should notify all the cable manufacturers that’s been doing it wrong, some for ~35 years.

I think it started out that way ...

Is this thread serious?

terry9

A star ground is important if ground is used as a circuit element, such as a signal return. A shield attached at one end is not part of the circuit, and cannot form a ground loop, or hum.

This is completely mistaken - a shield attached at only one end most certainly can either form a ground loop and contribute to hum and noise, or help alleviate hum and noise. That's exactly the purpose of using such a shielded cable, but of course it requires proper orientation of the shield to be effective. Remember that the term "ground loop" is really a bit of a misnomer; we can say a "ground loop" is formed whenever two or more grounds are at different potentials.

Also, the term 'source tend' seems ambiguous to me - is it the turntable or the preamp?

It's the preamplifier. What would be the purpose of running all the grounds through the pickup arm and cartridge?

As noted, star grounding is unimportant in this case.

Your connection scheme may work in your system, but I know for sure it wouldn't work in mine. I can't see any value in using an amplifier - as opposed to the preamplifier - as the common ground connection.

I think we are actually in the middle of a cellular drop zone lol 

Thanks! Worst case I add shielding later but I think I will be alright. 

Craig, I'm sure that you will be pleased with the result. My first suggestion was predicated on the possibility that you might be in a radio-rich environment. Since it seems that you are not, unshielded may be a better solution.

If these work out, that is, no obvious radio frequency interference, you should never need to upgrade.

@cleeds 

"Almost all components today have a separate ground. If not, you can always run a wire from the chassis to ground."

Agreed. But for those which do not ...

"If you always ground at the source end, it’s easy to maintain star grounding. That helps avoid noise and hum by keeping all grounds at the same potential."

A star ground is important if ground is used as a circuit element, such as a signal return. A shield attached at one end is not part of the circuit, and cannot form a ground loop, or hum. Also, the term 'source tend' seems ambiguous to me - is it the turntable or the preamp?

"The typical pickup arm/phono cartridge assembly has a separate ground wire - it’s a balanced circuit with a separate ground intended to be connected to the preamplifier. Again, that helps maintain star grounding."

As noted, star grounding is unimportant in this case. The rest, I agree with - but vintage gear may vary.

Nice discussing with you Cleeds, helps me to clarify my thinking.

Zu cables on Ebay

terry9

The problem with connecting the shield to the source end is that if a source has no ground connection, you will end up with an ungrounded shield.

Almost all components today have a separate ground. If not, you can always run a wire from the chassis to ground.

If you always ground at the source end, it’s easy to maintain star grounding. That helps avoid noise and hum by keeping all grounds at the same potential.

Many turntables and tonearms are like that, especially vintage ones - think two-prong plugs.

The typical pickup arm/phono cartridge assembly has a separate ground wire - it’s a balanced circuit with a separate ground intended to be connected to the preamplifier. Again, that helps maintain star grounding.

All,

I am announcing my purchase. 

Grannyring commented a little while back. 
He makes cables under the name “Acoustic BBQ” right here on Audiogon.

I bucked up and spent more than anticipated, but I am convinced they are the best setup for the money, and he didn’t have to sell me at all. I spend several hours researching with your help.

I purchased 4 IC cables with the following:
1. 2ft 16awg Duelund wire with impregnated oil. 16awg for a bit more meat than 20awg.
2. Cardas GSMO RCA connectors 
3. WBT Silver Solder
3. Not shielded as to not close the sound. The risk of interference is less than the negative effect that shielding creates. Plus, worst case scenario it can always be added.
4. Jacket over twisted wires 
5. Shrink wrap for support. 

Thank you Bill and everybody for your input! 

@tls49 

The problem with connecting the shield to the source end is that if a source has no ground connection, you will end up with an ungrounded shield. Many turntables and tonearms are like that, especially vintage ones - think two-prong plugs.

terry9

Not wanting to start a debate and you can obviously use whichever technique you wish, but everything I have read says shield/drain is connected to source end, or as I say, sending end. Also, I have looked at many cables from different manufacturers that use this and then will have the directional arrows on the cable. The arrow has always pointed toward the unconnected end.

Man this turned out to be a great thread from a new knucklehead like me trying to learn the ropes. I have learned so much. 

I am still confused about:
1. Whether I will be sorry if I don’t get any shielding since the Duelund wire seems awesome. 
2. Which side you connect the connected shielded side of the cable. 

If I can add one more choice--Anticables.com.

Handmade in America using a unique thin covering on the conductor and air as the dielectric. The cable is coiled, and bright red but they are 50% for $50/1-meter pair, right now.

And no matter which cable you choose, it will be improved with High Fidelity Cables Magnetic Adapters on both ends.

@cleeds

By 'robust' I mean a solid connector and heavy gauge ground line. Unlike some pieces from the old days.

Agree with everything you say, except using the preamp instead of the amp.

Oh, I get it - if one is using mono blocks. Yes, in that case, use the preamp, if it has a good ground connection.

Taww, teflon is bad stuff to get hot because it decomposes into seriously bad compounds starting about 470F. Think HF (hydrogen fluoride), the stuff used to etch glass. Some modern non-stick uses a high temperature variant, or so I understand.

But I may have been wrong about Canare and teflon - I don't remember how I came to that conclusion back in the dark ages.

As for my components deserving better, I am still spending on things which yield unambiguous improvements, like vacuum capacitors, or things to protect equipment, like isolation transformers and Variacs for soft-starting the power supplies. Until I have finished there, I just don't have money to spare for things that don't demonstrate conclusively in my system, and for which I see no theoretical advantage. YMMV

Thanks for the corrective note about Canare and teflon.

terry9The shield should be connected to the component with the most robust ground, which is often the amplifier.

I'm not sure what you mean by "robust ground." A good ground has low resistance and low impedance and - unless there's something amiss with your electrical wiring - that's easy to achieve. You want to avoid ground loops in an audio system, and the best way to do that is to have all components grounded at a single point. That usually means using the preamp (or integrated amp) as the ground for all components in the system. The goal is to keep all grounds at the same potential.

@tls49 

The shield should be connected to the component with the most robust ground, which is often the amplifier. Some phono/pre are even battery powered, whereas amps are not. Hence the suggestion.

Why use unshielded cables? You're going to have all those IC's next to power cords (which may or my not be shielded), transformers, and the AC lines into the receptacles. Possible RFI and EMI.

Years ago I purchased cables from Innersound $50 per meter pair.  If you can find some used I'd go for it.

The manufacturer explained that all that is needed for them to sound good is a have good wire (he used Belden) and a solid connection to the plug.

Innersound was a high end electrostatic speaker manufacturer.

You can probably get pretty good cables if you check your local vendors and find someone who will build them for you.

I’m still up in the air and starting to watch videos to build my own. If I buy some Duelund wire and make it unshielded, how do I add a drain line?

Are the Duelund makers in this post not using a drain wire?  

The mogami 2549 sound really good, you won’t be disappointed, just put on nice connectors and your set. 

"While any premium microphone cable will serve, I would stick with Mogami 2534. If you are terminating with RCA connectors, connect both the blue wires to the centre pins, both white wires to the outer rings (or vice versa). Connect the shield to the outer ring at the amplifier end only."

terry9

It's always been my understanding that the shield/drain is only connected to the sending end of the cable, so with a preamp/power amp connection, that would be preamp end only.

There are no $25 best interconnect cables. As a rule of thumb, if your components are under $1000, Decent cables such as from Monoprice work fine, and you don't need more expensive cables, or even a $3000 cable doesn't make any difference. If you components are between $1000 and $10,000, Blue Jean cables work fine. BJC uses Belden and Canare cables, Neutrik and Switchcraft connectors, and a few others. If your components are more than $10,000, then look for better cables. The total cost of your cable is no more than 5% of your system. I make my own cables for a $50K McIntosh-Focal system.

By the way everybody my speakers are Monitor Audio Gold and my speaker wires are 12AWG Phantom Speaker Cables rated for FT-4 in wall use from Infinite Cables in Canada.  Check out the number of strands! 

Thanks guys. I will check them out Taww. Also, the President of Parts Connexion answered me and said that I don’t even need Shielded cables for a short interconnect application for signals. 

Now I am back to thinking about those Duelunds. Sorry, this is a work in progress as you guys steer me. He also recommended 20awg over the 16awg for the interconnects. 

@grannyring 

I am using the Duelund DCA16GA wire as speaker (Double Impact) wire and the Duelund DCA20GA wire for interconnects. I prefer the 20GA for interconnects. The sound is a little more open and it works well with my 6SN7 tube preamp and KT88/6SN7 tube amp.