I apologize for the double post! I thought it had not been through.
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This is what I was talking about. See the information below from the Audiogon Bluebook and the link to a review.
Roksan Caspian INT
70w x 2, with remote
Agon Average $718.07
Private Party $777.31
This speaker uses crossovers which can give a wide and deep stage. In this price range it is one of the best in this part.
I do presentations for Monitor Audio. Onkyo is the only brand who can give depth and wide in the lower price ranges. All other brands are almost 2D.
If you want to spend 1500 dollar. I would look for a Primare integrated. Gives a 3 D stage with your speakers. Is a good combination for sound as well.
Bo, your back! How's the audio sales business? I see your still promoting the brands you sell and trashing everything else as 2D.
In this case though, I am confused. Per your above post...
"Onkyo is the only brand who can give depth and wide in the lower price ranges. All other brands are almost 2D."
But then you suggest Primare and I quote you...
"Gives a 3 D stage with your speakers. Is a good combination for sound as well."
So there is something else beside Onkyo that is 3D? I guess you must sell Primare too.
It is not about trashing. Every single person needs to get as many options as possible. It is a free world!!
It is only about letting people hear the options between different amps.
When you also do highend audio, it is special to give the same way of image for a lot less money.
I send my clients to other shops as well. Audio is all about comparing and listening.
The older primare like the I30 is a stunning integrated for the money you can get it. I Always look what a person wants and how much money they want to spend.
For 1500 dollar you can get a used I30.
The Arcam ( What I Sold far over 8 years of time) is in his price range one of the best sounding amps. Very involving. But it lacks the 3 D image.
I did run a shop for 2 years were I also sold Arcam. Primare is a higher price range. So for new amps you cannot compare.
I did do thousends of tests in audio for almost 16 years of time. I test every single amp of it is 2 or 3 dimensional.
I sold a lot Arcam in the lower price range in the past. That time I did not sell Onkyo.
When client buy Monitor Audio speakers with their amp they own. In the Neterlands it is often a Denon or Marantz.
I bring in a Onkyo as well. Then you understand what a much wider and deeper stage does with your music.
So they start saving money for an Onkyo. Audio can be very simple and convincing!
I have to agree with the Onkyo(Integra) thing and it's 3D capabilities. I have a vintage pair of Klipsch Heresys(updated crossovers, tweeter) and the Integra DTM-40.4 stereo receiver driving them. This may sound crazy but before the Integra, I had a wonderful Luxman R-117 receiver and it was without a doubt the best sounding single piece of gear I had ever owned. It was powerful, warmish but with incredible detail, and the imaging/soundstage was unbelievable.
I found the DTM-40.4 on C-list and picked it up for a secondary system but demoed it with the Heresys. I could not believe my ears, it had about 80% the bass drive of the R-117, but trumped it in all other catagories, 3D imaging and detail.
I agonized for over a week between which would drive the Heresys and the Integra won out. Who would have thought? One fact that helped my decision to keep the Integra in it's place was it's network capabilities(wired and wireless) with Spotify and Pandora tuners on board, and it's ability to play music files from my PC.
The Onkyo TX-8050 is the Onkyo model of the Integra DTM-40.4
Bo, see you haven't changed since last year. Besides peddling the same brands you sell, your still spurting your same subjective opinions as facts too. But here's your chance to prove me wrong...Could you tell us what the test parameters were and do you have written results of your...
"I did do thousends of tests in audio for almost 16 years of time. I test every single amp of it is 2 or 3 dimensional."
In 30 plus years, I have never seen a specification for the "dimensionality" of an amp or how one would test for it other than simply listening. What testing equipment do you use?
Luciano, for your needs, I think your looking in the right direction at the Arcam or Rega. Both appear to be able to get the job done. Still, hope you get some honest opinions from actual users of these amps. Personally I like the Arcam as it is a full sized component. The 1/2 sized width of the Rega would bug me - but this is only a matter of aesthetics. Good luck brother!
I sell even a lot Onkyo surr. receivers for people who use only stereo. Because I can use 4 amps for stereo use.
The Onkyo will use the full capacity of the transformer also when you use 2 or 4 channels.
With Audyssey you get more precision as well.
My focus is only on the best sound. I also do a lot business with the distributer who also does Arcam. They asked me if I want to do Arcam again. When focus is only on 3 d it is shame not to use it.
The distributer of Arcam said to me at my home: Arcam does not have this sharp focus and deph.
Paraneer: I know exactly were I am talking about. This it not about good sound, it is Always about getting the best for the money.
I can get everything for dealer prices. I only work with those which can give me the best results. That is a decision I take. Because it gives me the best sound to compete. Things can be very easy in life.
Marantz and Pioneer: both 2 dimensional brands. For example people who buy Monitor Audio speakers by me and have Marantz amplifiers. I Always take an Onkyo with me.
The difference in sharpness in individual focus and stage wide and deth is huge. Then you understand what 3 D gives. Audio can be easy and convincing, so keep it easy. I still use shops who sell 2 dimensional amps. It is a lot of fun and it makes me laugh how low the knowdledge is in audio in general.
OK Bo, I see where your coming from. Lots of unpersuasive rhetoric and no answer to my simple questions - what were the test parameters and equipment that you used and do you have written results? Looks like you don't.
But I have gleaned this from your post and these are your exact quotes as follows...
"I sell even a lot Onkyo surr. receivers for people who use only stereo. Because I can use 4 amps for stereo use."
So you are using AVR's and biamping from a common power supply for stereo and ....
"I know exactly were I am talking about. This it not about good sound, it is Always about getting the best for the money."
Spoken like a true Audio Salesman more interested in sales than achieving the best HiFi sound within a given budget.
I rest my case. To the OP, as your obviously new here and don't know Bo very well as some of us do, I would be very careful.
I posted earlier, but it must have been lost in the monitoring process.
I was referring to the original Roksan integrated not the Kandy. It listed for $1,500 new and if you can find one it should be close to your price range.
I think there is a picture on my system page. Mine is now in my office system.
I worked for over 6 years in a very big audio shop. We had about 8 listening rooms. In my free time I test a lot. Because I love it. Comparing amps, sources, speakers and cables. Cables is the thing I tested most. On my free monday I went to distributers. I wanted to listen to expensive stuff for myself and things we did not have. I started in 1998, at the end of 1999 I owned an audio set of far over 50.000 dollar myself. Audio is like a part of whO I am as a person. I never saw it as work and not as a hobby. Music is my favorite passion.
After this I did consulting for 2 years of time. It is the freedom you have and what it makes a lot more attractive than a speciality shop. I visited many many people with sets of about 10.000 dollar til 150.000 dollar.
In 2007 I did run a speciality shop for about 2 years. I had a lot of freedom choosing the brands I wanted.
We had many brands but I loved Monitor Audio the most. Because the stage was so much bigger than others. After some time I had almost every single loudspeaker of them.
That time I also had every thing Primare produces. I also had a lot of Arcam models. I have been for a few days to Arcam in England. When you compare Primare and Arcam to speakers who can give a deep and wide stage it is easy to hear how different the stage is build.
Monitor Audio is better in producing crossovers, this give them a far more physical stage and a wider and deeper stage.
When you play the same music on the Arcam with the Platinum speakers ( which I used a lot to test at that time) the stage width and depth is so much smaller and less deep.
In 2007 I started to let people hear the difference between 2 and 3 D. It was extreme effective. Often people spend more money when you let them hear a 3 D sound. This time I also started to send clients to other shops with 2 D brands. It is one of the most effective ways of selling audio for me.
When you test a lot after time you understand the different properties of every single brand. This makes audio a lot more easy to create a higher level in endresult.
That Onkyo also could give a deep and wide stage was pure luck to be honest. I did not know it till 2010. Sometimes you need a little luck in life. Audyssey did a lot as well.
Only by comparing cables, amps, sources, conditioners and speakers etc you will understand how to use them . I use shows, visitings other shops and ditributers to hear new stuff.
I do not care about a brand, but about the best sound quality in every single price.
After time I got even more expensive stuff myself. But I wanted the same 3D level for a lot less money. That was my focus. To create a much more appealing and convincing sound for less money, so more people can enjoy a much higher level in audio.
Hey guys, thank you all for your input.
Bo, thank you for the Onkyo models suggested, but sorry I decided I am not gonna buy an Onkyo (or a Primare). I said I had narrowed down my list to the Arcam and Brio-R.
So, I am really hoping to get some input for those amps from now on.
Paraneer, thank you so much for your input! Cheers!
It's a free world. I had discussions about the use of amps for Monitor Audio with the distributer and also with Monitor Audio England.
Last years when I was the absolute sound of a big audio show in my country, the distributer invited Monitor Audio England as well. They said that thye never heard this level out of there speakers.
Often choices are made for political reasons. I make mine to create the best endresult. At the end you decide what you will choose. It is that simple.
About 6 months ago I purchased a YBA Audio Refinement complete for $600- used. Not only is it a built like a tank with aluminum remote it sounds fantastic. It is a bit laid back and almost tube like. I am powering a pair of Joseph Audio RM7 monitors and I'm very content. This has been one of my best audio purchases in years.