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Everybody claims their acoustical product is a bass trap; It ain’t true. Room tunes is just cloth-covered fiberglass, a joke at the prices Michael asks for them. I still have some. Owens Corning 703 Semi-Rigid panels are far better for eliminating slap echo on walls. For true bass traps, ASC is the real deal. Expensive though. I found 13 of them in a local paper twenty years ago for ten bucks each, including a pair of 16"!
I've already eliminated slap echo using panels at reflection points on my walls. What I want/need is a bass trap. Just not sure what the "right" product is. I may call ASC next week and get their thoughts. Their products are pricey. That's why I might buy a cylinder from Lowes, fill it with sand, plop it in the corner and hear what it does.
Sand?! Sand is pretty good at absorbing physical vibrations, but not acoustical ones. Honest! There are diagrams on the net of how to build a bass trap. Get yourself some chicken wire (not a solid cardboard tube---the sound has to be able to get inside) and roll it into a tube. Line the inside of that tube with fiberglass. Seal the top and bottom of the chicken-wire tube. That's the general idea; for more details do a Google search on how to build them.
Just scanned the gikacoustics site and was very impressed with what they offer. Prices seem reasonable as is shipping cost.
Yes I guess the cylinder/sand approach is flawed. Not interested in using chicken wire/insulation. WAF is non-existent. Think I'll call ASC and GIK on Monday. Thanks for everyone's input.
Just be aware that the efficiency of traps at absorbing bass frequencies is very low; it takes a lot of them, and the larger in diameter they are the lower in frequency are they effective to. I’m investigating the cost to build a room within a room (garage, actually). It might be cheaper to build one to Golden Ratio specs than to outfit a poorly-dimensioned one with traps!
What you may need for your problem may simply be a pair of Cathedral Sound Panels. They are tiny, a snap to install, inexpensive and very effective on frequencies south of 200 Hz, even down close to 20 Hz.
But beware, they operate on a completely different principle of physics than the usual bass traps, manufactured or DIY and therefore scare off most audiophiles. They’re just a shallow, cloth-covered box with layers of ’pegboard’ inside with many air-holes drilled into them and offset at a particular distance from each other in order to set up a sort of sonic ’maze’ for the sound pressure to travel down into before becoming ’diffused’ and their energy is absorbed. The science is not new. It’s actually just a reasoned application of Bernoulli’s principle (high school physics) in which air (a gas) speeds up when flowing through a constriction (like water speeding up through a spray nozzle in a garden hose). The panels end up being a bit like a Helmholtz radiator for your room...they trick your woofers into thinking the room is larger than it is. But, with such an efficient use of surface area, the device need not be large, even with bass frequencies because what we’re dealing with here is wave pressure, not wavelength...this is where, I think, the whole bass trap idea/industry, comparatively at least, and certainly from any price/performance ratio, has gotten it all wrong. Unless your particular room is some kind of unholy challenge, then I’d say this is your best bet.
This solution is:
a breeze to transport
good resale value
what else is there??
One thing I should point out, a clarification really, lest anyone wants to follow up on my post above. There is only one real sticking point with the Cathedral Panels and that has to do with the fact that they deal with wave pressure and not wavelength. This necessarily means that the listening room has to be used as a 'sealed' room, i.e. doors and windows must be shut and there should be no areas open to the rest of the home. If so, it would undercut the effectiveness of the panels that can only operate in the presence of dynamic changes in air **pressure**. So it really depends on each end user's own situation. Can your room be easily sealed when listening or do your circumstances prevent this? When the room is sealed, the panels should do fine. If that's not an option, then the traditional approach should be more appropriate.
Mofi, understood. I tried them in a sealed room I had before my current room, which is now open floor plan, and they did pretty well, although the bass problems in that room happened to be not all that severe, at least not after I had gone through all the motions and given speaker placement its proper due first.
Helmholtz resonators such as the ArgentRoom Lens operate a little differently than tube traps and have a rather wider bandwidth. The best thing about Helmholtz resonators is they’re easily to build yourself. Heck, I even built a low frequency Helmholtz resonator to curb a standing wave in the corner, it was a 15 foot long folded horn as it were. Crystals operate at low frequencies, too, as well as higher frequencies although you wouldn’t think so by looking at them. Even those tiny little bowl resonators affect low frequencies IIRC.
You're asking too much. I've found that on most issues, especially room acoustics... it's a very personal choice. All one can do is report on their findings in their specific room.
Asking others to somehow make a recommendation that will fulfill your specific needs is a false question.
(I recently ordered a pair of Vicoustic Extreme Bass Panels.),.....
point being, this is what I felt was right for my room. we'll see....?
Another vote for Auralex LENRD Bass Traps. They do a great job of breaking up the reinforcements that occured in the corners of my room. eBay lists a version that is much cheaper and I see no reason that they wouldn't work as well. Note the configuration, compared to Auralex's: (http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Pack-Corner-Bass-Trap-Acoustic-Foam-Sound-Proffing-Pro-Audio-12X12X24Inche...) (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auralex-LENRD-Corner-Bass-Traps-Acoustic-Foam-Studio-Soundproofing-4-pack-NE...)
I have two DIY 2' X 4' acoustic panels that I made years from 2" thick Owens Corning 703. I have since replaced them with professionally made panels. Since these two DIY panels are excess to my needs, is there any reason why I can't sandwich the two together to make a 4" thick bass trap in the corner between/behind my speakers?
I've tried all kinds of acoustic treatments over the years, even some DIY stuff. The best I've found by far for bass/corners are ASC tube traps.
I've bought them used on Agon and eBay for 50% or more off retail. ASC themselves have show demo units they discount for sales sometimes. Great folks to deal with and very helpful...
Everything I make tends to look like a third grade shop project, but doesn't stop me from trying.
Yesterday made cable elevators from small 6" high easels purchased at Michaels (bought 15 @ $1.27ea)! They were already 60% off and I had a 20% coupon. Sanded the fru fru side edges straight, sanded notches on top to hold the cable (made risers to accommodate two cables and risers for only one cable), and sprayed them black, and they look pretty nice. I think any third grader would be very impressed with my results!
Highly recommended solution for anyone wanting inexpensive cable risers.
Nothing wrong with DIY!
As I progress in age, I find that people smarter than me, develope items I find interesting and obtainable. I'm at the stage in my life where, I can see the benefit of purchasing said items, auditioning them, then, if I like, I then duplicate them, as opposed to trying, on the fly, to replicate or develop something "unknown". To me, this is the smart way to go as a DIY'er.
I will say, I own Ready Acoustic products that I've modified. After receiving the Vicoustic, .....(NIGHT & DAY) difference!
Take this as you may. I would not write this if I did not feel that, more money spent, (wisely), upfront, will result in more satisfaction for years to come.
I'm feeling a kinship.
rockeyboy: If you haven't already, look up www.mapleshade.com . You'll find their cable risers that are a more simple design.
In the future, you'll need to have a direct correlation of your item and it's effectiveness to the sound of your system.
What state are you residing? Reason being, maybe someone, a fellow audiophile can help guide you?
Agree regarding introducing items willy nilly into a system. That's why I've not yet purchased a low frequency base trap. I'm retired and have to be careful how I spend my money.
An audiophile friend/designer is coming over this week. Looking forward to his recommendations.
Think my DIY wooden risers are every bit as effective as Mapleshde risers and at a fraction of the price.
rockyboy, a few months ago I was at John Tucker of Exemplar Audio in Everett, Washington. He had a nice sounding system in his listening room with three ceramic rings holding up the speaker wires. After listening a while, I asked if I might do something. He said yes. I used only one of the rings in an elevated position on each side.
He said, "Had I not heard that I would not have believed it possible."
This was a smaller difference than between types of risers. You are welcomed to come down and listen. I am in College Station, TX. Bring your preferred risers.
I have a fair amount of experience selecting, positioning and installing bass traps. I found those from ATS Acoustics to be well made, very reasonably priced and easy to install, I have two of their corner traps and eight wall mounted ones.
One thing that really helped me get the sound in my "man cave" just right was to download and purchase "REW" (Room EQ Wizard) and the "miniDSP UMIK-1 USB Measurement Calibrated Microphone". I really struggled trying to get the best from my sub woofers & bass traps with a system tuning disk and Radio Shack sound pressure meter. I was able to configure some "sweeps" in REW, moved the bass traps around to find the best places to install them. In one case, sliding one of them rearward just about 5 to 6" seemed to make a big difference.
With the disk/sound pressure meter I was able to get the "boominess" out of the room, but it still sounded like I had subs. With the calibration microphone and REW, I was able to tune the crossover point, crossover intensity and volume on the subs, and it helped me immensely in getting them positioned "just right". Now the system/room has excellent bass, doesn't sound like I have subs...unless you turn them off!
I recently pulled my Rel Storm III out of my room (and put it up for sale). Found it added little to SQ and getting it out of system simplified my life. I will look into the REW and microphone to see their cost. Downside is that they are a one time use item. After setup, the items go on the shelf. Shame that dealers don't purchase and rent them to customers.
I use GIK for everything. They have variations with Scopus tuned traps, effective at certain frequencies. scatter plates to keep from damping the highs. They are serious about effectiveness, no window dressing here. They will sell you Owens Corning 703. I bought a box of six 2 inch 24 by 48 and use it to play around with different reflection points.
They made me a beautiful trap to hook over my tv that's between my speakers. Took a lot of shout away from my front stage. And yes, the soffit traps are probably the most effective trap. My speakers have active bass down firing from the cabinets and treating the room well has taken full advantage of that.