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Back to the drawing board

I hate to start this again. I really had my heart set on 2 svs sb3000. But know after careful listening or maybe this time around I realized what was happening.  So I went to best buy just to re evaluate my decision and noticed I did not like what I was hearing.  Thus time around I had a couple of hours and has my significant other with me, oh no what we heard totally ruined our previous thoughts.  In one room I listened to the rel t9i and the svs sb2000.  The svs had the out put but not the detail and it really hurt the mid range and uppers. Lower base was not full or detailed. Now the rel, wow it just blended really nice and was full, detailed and just sounded right. I'm thinking to myself this can't be right. So off to the other room, svs sb 4000, 16 ultra and the rel s5. Now again the svs has the output or pressure. But the s5 totally beats both of them on detail, disappearing,  tight,  full and more sound stage. I went back and forth between these 2 rooms, playing the same 2 tracks I have always demo with. I know my ears would not lie. So now unfortunately I am reading again. I am considering 2 t9i or 1 s3.  I think I will also demo the JL e110 and paradigm defiance x12.  Wish I could demo a rymthik,  but don't know any places to demo. I will make the trip and one place has the JL and rel. 5 miles further down I can demo the x12.  I now know the sound I want and unfortunately it's not svs with its great price and impressive output. I'm sure the subs are great, but not what me and the ms want in our system.  Has anyone demo JL and rel side by side?  I love the rel sound, is paradigm or rymthik as tight as rel. I've never listened to JL.  I guess a road trip is due. Room is 8ft ceiling 14x24, hardwood floors. Thanks for any help you can give. Pete
pcc67

Showing 3 responses by jhills

jhills
610 posts
 
Way to often, listeners are expecting the wrong performance from a sub. We mistakenly expect the sub to perform the tasks that should be performed by our mains. The detail, impact and timber we typically expect to hear in bass, is in frequencies above 40HZ. Frequencies below 60 HZ are non directional and do not contribute to the imaging character of the main speakers. There is nothing quick or detailed about deep bass; even at 40Hz, it takes over 25’ to complete one cycle. Since every room and the amount of space will effect the performance and requirement of equalization for any given sub, as others have mentioned, it’s very hard to evaluate, in a dealer’s show room, how a particular sub/subs will perform in your home.
Aside from budget, you’re room and willingness to do some experimenting with placement and settings should be the deciding factor, but any of the subs mentioned should do well at loading a medium sized room with enough clean bass energy to fill out the very bottom of your bass performance and that should be all you are trying to do with a sub.....Jim
jhills
610 posts
 
@pcc67
Room dampening is always a good first move. It may also help, if you can and wife permitting, to add a bit of dampening to the wall behind the speakers. Hanging decorative black-out drapes on the wall behind my speakers made a huge difference in my room, but also decorative wall rugs or acoustic panels work well.....Jim
jhills
610 posts
 
@ cleeds
It’s true that phase as well as controlling standing and canceling waves is important, as is system integration and is true that good deep bass is considerably more than thump, thump, thump. But, for a fact, frequencies below 60Hz in most home sized rooms are non directional and radiant in nature and of themselves, do not establish specific placements on a stage.
Because instruments that perform in the lower mid bass frequencies between 60Hz and 200Hz (kick drums, bass guitar, string bass, bass viola etc) also produce sub harmonic frequencies falling below 40Hz, a good sub/subs, set up properly, definitely adds a needed degree of texture, timber and fullness to a system.

+1 audiokinesis

Adjusting the controls on the subwoofer amp for best performance is critical; a mis-adjustment can easily make much more of a difference than the variations among competent subwoofer brands. Here is the sequence I generally suggest:

1. Adjust the level of the sub(s) to blend well with the mains;

2. Adjust the lowpass filter frequency of the sub(s) to get a better blend;

3. Adjust the phase to get an even better blend;

4. Go back to step 1 and cycle through these steps a couple more times.


+1 erik_squires

Yep, great subwoofer integration is amazing.
You don’t need a very expensive sub, but you do need great configuration.

Happy listening.....Jim

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