Geoff, not sure where that leaves Mothership, which was probably a digital remaster, not of the entire catalog, but certainly within the last 20 years. |
I pre-ordered the deluxe versions of I-III, largely out of curiosity. I already have multiple pressings of these albums, including for the first album, the 74 Piros/Monarch as well as the Classic 45; for LZII, the vaunted 'RL' ss/narrow side two deadwax pressings, and the Classic of III. The best pressing of LZI that I've heard is a '69 first press from Monarch, not easy to find, though the Piros cut is very good, and removes some of the sluggish, closed-in sound that I always associated with this album (which is my favorite of all the Zep records). II has so much primitive processing going on that it is hard to say what's 'natural' sounding- the RL is simply the best I've heard. The Classic pressing of III is regarded as one of that label's better efforts; none of these are audiophile recordings, but it is still worth trying to find the best sounding copies you can. That's why I'm willing to throw a few bucks toward these newest pressings. We shall see.... |
Phase- agree about the production quality being lackluster. These are not 'audiophile' records. That's why, in my estimation, fans who are into sound quality are on a constant, almost futile quest for the best sounding copies. The 'RL' of II is killer, despite the heavy use of effects and tape loops in the production where you can hear generation loss. LZ1 always sounded 'canned' and 'closed in' to my ears, although the Monarchs (and the Classic 45) improve on it. I don't listen much to the other albums, though i have some 'good' copies. The Classic of III has decent sound (i forget which side sounds better).
. |
Lowrider- Siddh, in a posting above quotes from a Rolling Stone article that describes these as mastered from hi-rez digital and I have seen other articles that say the same. For what it's worth, though I am pretty much a dyed in the wool analog guy, I have heard digital mastered vinyl that has actually bettered original analog pressings; one example that comes to mind is the Steve Wilson remix of Tull's Benefit- I have a first UK press, a first US press and both are murky, closed-in sounding. The Wilson version is far more revealing without sounding strident.
As to other Zep remasters done all analog, I'm sure the Classics were, as Rockitman indicated; there were also many older reissues and remasters, including, for LZ1 the Piros one I mentioned (which is really good, circa 1974); the old MoFi of LZII (which isn't bad). If you go to Discogs, you can see dozens of reissues by country that were done back in the day before digital become prevalent.
We did a shoot-out of LZI at my house last year which included a UK first pressing (not the turquoise lettered cover, but same matrix numbers), the first US (I think a Presswell) and a first US pressed at Monarch. The last one had far and away more drive than the other two. (At the time, I only had the 33 Classic of LZ1 so we did not compare it to the 45 Classic, which I only acquired later).
I haven't heard the 45 Classic of LZII but FWIW, the 'RL' is far 'hotter' than the other early US pressings of that record.
I'm offering this, not because I purport to know everything Zep, but because I have spend some time and money comparing and buying pressings of these. (And yes, the 45 of Stairway is very good- you can find it out there- I bought a test pressing last year).
Don't ask me about Aqualung, another one of those records that just isn't a great recording to start with, thus driving me to buy an almost endless number of different pressings in search for the best sound. |
JKarczmit- if you look at the descriptions on Music Direct, the deluxe LP version of LZ 1 is three LPs, two of which are out-takes or previously unreleased material. LZII and LZIII are two LPs each, and the description says the second LP in each is the previously unreleased stuff. No suggestion of 45 rpm or one sided pressings. I think we already read that these were taken from digital files.
Low, as to the Classics being the best representation, not sure. I own several, including the 45 rpm set of LZI, as well as the 45 of Stairway, along with a 33.3 of LZIII from Classic. Haven't heard the 45 of LZII, but would be surprised if it has the impact of the 'RL.' As mentioned, the best pressing of LZI I've heard was a first press by Monarch that I haven't been able to source; the one much loved among Hoffman devotees is the Piros 74 remaster of LZI (which I do have) and it is very good.
I'm not dumping on these newest releases- I've already pre-ordered the deluxe editions and will see how they compare to the many pressings I already have. (And, as I may have mentioned, I'm not absolutely against digital re-do's- the Tull Benefit on vinyl (UK track list) with the Steve Wilson remix sounds better to me than my first UK and US pressings, though that album was very muddy). If these prove to be good, they will be a bargain, given the cost of the Classic 45s and some of the early original pressings. |
Son, scroll down a few articles on the home page and you'll see M. Fremer's piece re the Zep reissues. |
I thought Page's whole pitch was that a (digital) remaster hadn't been done in 20 years. I suspect Mothership (which I did buy on vinyl when it came out) was probably derived from those older digital masters. I haven't compared CDs of Mothership (which I don't own) to any 'native' digital files of the 2014 releases, but would assume they improved things- my only focus has been on the vinyl. I already wrote up my preliminary comparisons of the 2014 vinyl of LZ 1 and II to a couple of the highly regarded earlier pressings in a different thread here, but didn't bother with Mothership (vinyl). Since I now also have clean UK first pressings of LZII and III, I can do a short write up of the 2014 LZIII to a Classic III and a UK first pressing. |
Low- this may just add to the confusion, and since I never focused on the
various CD versions of Zep, I can't really comment. But, apparently there
have been a number of remasters on CD over the years, and post #41 in
the first link below addresses Mothership in particular. There are also Barry
Diament (apparently the original cds) and Marino remasters. Apparently,
the transfers used for the Marino remasters, circa the early 90's, were the
basis for Mothership remastered by John Davis, if I am reading this
correctly.
I have no dog in this fight, so am willing to stand corrected, but offer it only
for additional
information, per the Hoffman forum:
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-original-cds-vs-
remasters.236470/page-2
(look at post #41).
See also,
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/led-zeppelin-non-
remastered-cds-question.88238/
(Post #12)
Finally, I think John Davis is the guy that did the actual remastering of the
2014 stuff, which I gather is also the same for the Zep mastered for
iTunes?
And did the Celebration Day release? (which was the 02 concert).
I can safely say that all of this requires someone with more knowledge than
me, at least on the CDs. (I did manage to hear them at the 02 show in
London, and they were surprisingly good for a 'revival' performance. I never
listened to the recording of that show, but probably have it somewhere).
Over and out. |
Low, sorry, I've been on an iPad and those aren't really hyperlinks. You'd
have to copy and paste the whole data set in to get to the threads. But, if
you do a couple searches on the Hoffman site itself, with respect to LZ CDs
and remasters, I think you'll find the threads. PS: If I understand the
process, they would have used the same digital transfers but the mastering
for Mothership was different than the Marino CDs from what I read. I'm
gonna stick to vinyl, it's easier for my antediluvian brain to process
(figuratively speaking). |
