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B&W Nautilus 803 or B&W 702 S2?

I'm currently sporting Paradigm 60 v3 for my fronts and considering purchasing B&W Nautilus 803 that are 10 years old or purchasing new B&W 702 S2.  My room is 25 x 20 feet, using Anthem A5 currently with McIntosh 135. Which would be a better fit based on these specs...and am I better off keeping the Paradigm's?
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Showing 3 responses by hifineubee

hifineubee
56 posts
 

Neither, to enjoy the B&Ws you must have an amp that at least double downs from 8ohm to 4ohm and preferably if you can afford if further doubles down to 2ohm.  Both sets of speakers above dip as low as 3.7ohm and spend a lot of their frequencies between 4-6ohm.  You'll be very disappointed driving them with Anthem A5, the result would be lean and bright sound.  I'm giving feedback based on my personal experience using up to Parasound Halo Integrated to drive B&W 805S.

 As shameless self advertisement, if on a budget you should consider something like the ClassDAudio amp that I'm posting for sale or something like the Marantz HD-AMP1.

But if you must choose something, I'd say pick the latest 702 S2 and it can perform at 80% of the latest 804 D3 (admittedly, in hifi that remaining 20% can be really big deal).  The 803 Nautilus is at least 20yrs old technology, the new 702 S2 is leap and bounds ahead catered to modern digital high resolution music.  But if you're more the analog and tube kind of guy not into high resolution digital, go with 803N for warmer sound.  I have both 805S and 805D3.

hifineubee
56 posts
 
Hi, not too sure how to advice you.  Your demo journey has far exceeded the original price range of what you're looking for.  When you hit $10k range, those speakers tend to be super picky with what gear you're pairing with, break in time, speaker cable used, music source...etc.  Listening to my 805D3, different recordings of the same song sound significantly different.  Try listening to old vinyl, vs 44khz CD, vs DSD vs complete remastered 192khz FLAC and you'll see.  Without a good grasp of what your true budget range is, give your existing gear budget range, it would be very unwise to use such high end speakers for both music and hifi listening purpose.  Most typical AV receiver are all unable to properly power such speakers.  Most cannot do 4ohm let alone less than 4ohm.  Your resulting experience will be very lean sound.  Otherwise, you'll need to shell out a lot of money to add a secondary amp(s) to power your large speakers besides using AV receiver.  Then you'll have all the other components to add.

As for the other B&W speakers, they're all very different.  803D is a lot bigger in size than 803S.  D1/D2 has diamond tweeters vs S's aluminum tweeters.  While both D and S line have kelvar woofers (the yellow cone), they are also tuned to have different sonic signatures (though not obvious unless you've owned them all like myself, I started with 805N).  In general, I can say from personal experience, diamond tweeters are not the wow thing their price would suggestion.  Better yes, but not 10x different as reflected in replacement parts cost.   In general, each B&W 800 series generation loses warmth, become more neutral and more high resolution sensitive.  Based on demo experience, the new continuum woofers used in 800 series D3 and 700 series S2 pair very well with Mcintosh amps.  I will also add that personally I don't think neutral is a good thing, when today's new speakers, amp, cables, DAC are all 'neutral', what you get is the most blend sound ever, like eating organic salad with no flavoring or dressing.  So beware.
hifineubee
56 posts
 

Hi judgmentday, great questions you have there.  I have some great answers for you that'll hopefully save you tons of money mistakes that I made.  I'll just ask that you bare with my answers below with some patience and an open mind.

First off, speakers are not driven by watts, they are driven by electric current.  I learnt to understand this the expensive way, buying t a $2500 Parasound Halo Integrated and couldn't for the life of me understand why my 805S sounded so poorly.  Keep an open mind here, cause this is where I'm going to help save you tons of money.

Now some quick important facts about the two B&W speakers you asked about.  I would definitely take the 805D3 over the 702 S2 because I love the high detail resolution and the 'special' spec that the 805D3 is the only B&W with a 4.7ohm minimal impedance.  This is very important because this makes the 805D3 compatible with most Class AB & D amps that cannot push low 2-4 ohm impedance.   702 S2 is awesome on its only at $4500 a pair vs the 804 D3 at $9000 a pair.  If you're willing to give up resolution in exchange for the fuller sound of a full tower, 702 S2 is very good in its price range, awesome if you get it used around $3000 range.  Note that 702 S2 has a carbon tweeter not diamond tweeter.  Note that you must break in the 805D3 for at least 120hrs based on my experience and brace yourself for some really lean and bright sound the first 60 or so rollercoaster hours.

The 805D3 loves solid state and tube amps equally.  First of all, I would recommend you hold off on Bryston amp unless you already have it.  You want an amp that does 1.x 8ohm and 2.x 4ohm, the Bryston is only 1.6x at 300W 8ohm and 500W 4ohm.  Without going into science details, the Bryston 4B3 is not generating electric current across a wide enough impedance to keep the B&W happy.  Here's where I'm going to save you money.  As alternative, try

For solid state, Marantz HD-AMP1.  The meager spec will shock you what 35W 8ohm 70W 4ohm with Marantz current feedback feature can do.  I have a 16x13x8 room and I cannot play at even half volume with this amp.  You can get this from Amazon and return within 30days.  Once you try this, you'll forever change perception of amplifier specs.

I tried 805D3 with a chinese Yaqin EL34 push pull amp and it worked well though I didn't really get the warm and fuzzy tube sound.  Currently I'm using a 8W 300B SET amp with the 805 D3, works ok with female vocal, jazz...etc small music.  In general, I use 300B SET when I want that holographic voice whispering in my ears feeling and the Marantz for large soundstage orchestral music.

Currently I confess I am still not driving the 805D3 with good enough gear, when I have the money, I would invest in a Mcintosh which I feel is closet to best of both tube and solid state worlds.  If you can afford, you should try demoing the B&Ws with a Mcintosh MAC6300 or higher model with autoformer.

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