Azimuth 2020


How do you set your cart's azimuth in the 21st century?
128x128fuzztone

Showing 12 responses by lewm

Robert, please define “optimizing the left and right channel high frequency response “ for frequency >20khz and how you would do it. Thx.
Robert, You took my meaning wrongly, when I wrote that the best use of azimuth adjustment is to manage crosstalk, not channel balance.  In fact, I found the logic of the Korf article, when I first read it about a year ago, to be compelling.  He doesn't say to use azimuth adjustment to correct for channel imbalance but not crosstalk, as your response to me might suggest; he does say one is best off by seating the stylus in the groove symmetrically and not to fuss with azimuth, which is a philosophy I now follow.  I only wanted to add that azimuth adjustments have a much greater effect on crosstalk than on channel balance, if one wants to fuss with azimuth.
And by the way, these days I rarely even try to adjust azimuth electrically. I have come to favor just getting the stylus to sit properly in the groove, which is usually very close to if not exactly at 90 degrees azimuth.  I leave it to the manufacturer to build the cartridge properly.
Actually, because I have a Triplanar tonearm (with easy azimuth adjustment) and that Signet Cartridge Analyzer (which has a built-in db meter) I mentioned up above, I once experimented to find out how much could Azimuth alone alter channel balance, assuming that 90 degrees of azimuth gave perfect channel balance.  The result was a bit less than +/-2db, where the azimuth angle was radically off at either extreme, like a range of 60 degrees to 120 degrees, which one would never choose to live with.  I don't argue with anything you say in your post of 3:05 PM; my point is that azimuth is best used to manage crosstalk, not channel balance.  If I were faced with channel imbalance, there are other ways to correct it.  And while there is always a choice to shoot for equal crosstalk vs "best" crosstalk, my aim would be to try to achieve best numbers, R to L and L to R, regardless of the fact that the two values would not be equal.  But there are two sides to that question, and I recognize that others may disagree (like the guy who designed the Fozgometer).
Yes, but changing azimuth will also alter crosstalk, and azimuth has far less of an effect on channel balance vs crosstalk.  So a little change in balance makes a big change in crosstalk relationships. 
Robert, You wrote, "I pull out the test record and do a high frequency sweep to make sure channels are matched."
Matched for what?  Balance or crosstalk?

I think what can happen, if azimuth is set at any angle different from 90 degrees, is that as you raise or lower the VTA. the contact points of the stylus, depending upon stylus shape, might alter their contact with the groove and certainly the distribution of forces on the groove walls would shift a bit.  But this effect, like very small changes in VTA, is tiny.  If azimuth is set at a perfect 90 degree angle to the groove, none of this would happen.  You'd have only the effect of VTA per se on groove contact.
terry9, I had the exact same experience with my Koetsu Urushi.  After I first acquired it about 10 years ago, I adjusted azimuth using my Signet Cartridge Analyzer.  There I first noted that "equal" crosstalk and "least" crosstalk are two mutually exclusive goals, and to obtain equal crosstalk, L to R and R to L, the azimuth angle of the Koetsu was ridiculously biased to one side.  I actually listened to it that way for a bit, and the experience was not good.  Fearing that I had already damaged the stylus and maybe some LPs, I soon went back to near 90 degrees where I could obtain low values but not equal values.  Maybe not even the lowest possible values, but I decided it was better to settle for that, and the sound was improved as well.  The Koetsu is one of those hand made cartridges that can have been less than perfectly constructed.  I subsequently had similar experiences with a few other cartridges.  Then I read a white paper which made the argument in favor of proper seating of the stylus tip in the LP groove.  It makes sense to me.

I don't know for sure but from the tenor of other posts about the Fozgometer, I am guessing it may operate by equalizing crosstalk, R to L vs L to R.  That is not my cup of tea.
Fuzztone,  I find it's most enlightening when two or more people openly disagree and then have a civil discussion, preferably backed up by facts in support of one position or another.  It's fine to disagree, in my opinion.  It's better not to be nasty about it.
Stringreen, I did not want to be needlessly contentious with Mijostyn and others who have suggested using a mirror.  I personally do not.  Also, I never finished explaining my rationale for deciding not to agonize over determining azimuth electrically vs setting it "physically", by setting the stylus square in the LP groove.  It's because in the electrical measure, if the stylus ends up at an angle with respect to 90 degrees azimuth, then you may (or may not, if you haven't done it correctly) have better numbers for crosstalk, but you have introduced other sources for distortion and possibly sources of wear on the stylus, suspension, and the LP.  That scares me more than a small deviation from the best possible numbers for crosstalk.  If the cartridge is poorly constructed such that the azimuth angle has to be other than 90, send it back.  (I've never tried to do that, because I never had the foresight to measure a brand new cartridge just after receiving it.  Also, most of  the cartridges I own are vintage.)

edwyun, I ask this question out of pure curiosity, not meaning to disagree at all, but is it possible to optimize two parameters (crosstalk and phase) that may be antagonistic by making one adjustment of cartridge orientation (azimuth)?  I would guess the result is inevitably a compromise, which is where we all end up in this hobby.
If the Fozgometer does not depend upon crosstalk in both directions in order to help the user set azimuth, then it is poorly conceived.  However, I have to suspect that it does give an end point for azimuth angle that depends upon crosstalk, but the actual readout of crosstalk in terms of its magnitude is not made available to the user.  But I have never seen a Foz in the flesh, much less used one.  The Feickert device is not the only other option, in any case, good as it may be.  I've got a Signet Cartridge Analyzer that must be 35-40 years old.  Used in conjunction with its dedicated test LP, the Signet tells you crosstalk, in both directions, in db units.
I have become somewhat of a nihilist when it comes to setting azimuth by electrical measurement.  If the transducer mechanism in the cartridge body is properly aligned with the cantilever and stylus, then the good old mirror or other eyeball judgement that the stylus is square to the groove is all you need or want.  If the transducer is out of alignment with the cantilever/stylus, then you are going to end up with your stylus tip at some angle with respect to sitting squarely in the groove.  That produces the negative effects I mentioned to fuzztone; the stylus will wear unevenly, the side stresses on the suspension can wear on it too. And ultimately, the LP will be damaged.  So, I have come to prefer setting azimuth physically, by seeing that the stylus sits squarely in the groove. For high quality cartridges, manufacturing tolerances ought to assure that the transducer is lined up with the business end, although we all know that occasionally is not the case.  I would maybe set azimuth on a new cartridge using electrical measurement of crosstalk.  If I then find that the azimuth angle is extreme when I view the cartridge from the front, I would return the cartridge to the dealer or manufacturer and ask for another sample.  Then too, there is the secondary question of whether one aims for EQUAL crosstalk, L to R and R to L channel, or lowest crosstalk in those two directions, irrespective of whether the absolute values are equal or not. In every case where I have done electrical measurements, those two options are mutually exclusive.
Rdk77, What do you mean when you write that the foz doesn’t account for crosstalk? Azimuth is all about crosstalk.


fuzz, if your cartridge is cockeyed beyond say 2 degrees consider that you may be damaging the stylus, the suspension, and your LPs. No matter how good it may sound.