Ayon Orion 2 or Prima Luna Dialogue Premium Int.?

I was wondering if anyone has auditioned both of these amps? I was dead set on the Prima Luna Dialogue Premium Integrated amp, until I saw Absolute Sound's review of Ayon Orion 2. They are comparably priced, but I would like opinions on which sounds better. I like the fact that the Ayon is made in Europe, (as opposed to PL, which is assembled in China). Which model will have better build quality? What differences would there be in the sound of these two amps? Thank you for taking the time to give your expert input.

I know a lot of people have reliability issues with Prima Luna. I haven't heard it so I can't comment on SQ.
Hi Zd542,

Curious ... what reliability issues are there with Prima Luna? I have owned Prima Luna Prologue 2 & 5 since 2005 with 0, and I mean 0 issues. I wish I could say that for other brands that I have owned in the last 8 years that just plain crapped out ... Panasonic TV, Pioneer blu-ray, Cambridge Audio cd player, Denon dvd player.

I didn't say that every person that ever bought one broke, just that it can be an issue. I can remember 4 people that told me to stay away from the brand because they had issues with it. I don't remember what the exact problems were. Also, I've read about problems with PL gear on this website more times than I can remember. If you do a search, you can probably find some of the comments is you want more details.
I don't have an axe to grind here. I am a very satisfied PL owner and was curious about the issue comment, as it was not something that I had seen mentioned in print. So, when I do a search for 'Prima Luna' in the archives, for the first 150 results, there is 1 problem spoken about and that is with a few bad KT88 tubes that Upscale replaced. When I search 'Prima Luna problems', the problems spoken about are not PL related. What am I missing?

Zd542, your credibility just flew out the window for me, I will never take seriously anything you write on here again. I own a Primaluna Dialogue One, no issues whatsoever. My brother and several mutual friends zero problems. Many high end products fail miserably too often no matter where they are built.

Don't take this the wrong way, but pleasing you was not on my to do list today, or any other day, for that matter. Weather or not you find me credible means absolutely nothing to me.
Mikirob, good plan I think. We should all follow suit. Lets not support the jerks, life is too short for this nonsense.
Does anyone care to comment on the sound differences between these amps? Have any of you heard the Ayon Orion 2? I was just wondering, if you could put your differences aside, and answer my initial questions? Do you guys think that the Ayon sounds better? Does it have better build quality? What is the reason, for the $700.00 price difference between Ayon Orion, and the Prima Luna? Thank you.
"I like the fact that the Ayon is made in Europe, (as opposed to PL, which is assembled in China). Which model will have better build quality?"

My first post tries to give you some insight as to what you can expect regarding your above post. If the choice were mine, I would take anything made in the US over just about anything made in China. It doesn't matter how good the stuff looks, a good portion of it always seems to go bad somehow. That's my honest opinion. If people are offended by it, there's nothing I can do about it.

I've loved my PrimaLuna for some years now without one single solitary problem.
The $700 difference in price is most likely attributed to the country of assembly or manufacture. But there is no sense getting into a made in China/ made elsewhere discussion given that the PCs we are using to answer your thread are all made in China.

Eight years ago when I purchased my Prima Luna PL2, I wrote an audio review here .

I have never heard the Ayon, so I can not answer your question directly. I can tell you my impressions of the Prima Luna and in eight years, I have never felt the urge to upgrade.

The Ayon Orion is made in China. Their other amps are Austrian.

I have not heard the Orion but have heard the Spirit 1 and it's a good amp. I have no experience with Prima Luna, but I certainly like the Ayon gear.

Rather than an Orion, I'd try to land a used Spirit here on Audiogon.
"But there is no sense getting into a made in China/ made elsewhere discussion given that the PCs we are using to answer your thread are all made in China."

Why would our PC's being made in China have anything to do with a tube preamp?
For what it's worth, I had one of the ealier Prima Luna 35-watt KT 88 tube amps for about 5 years and loved it. Very reliable, and I really liked the auto bias feature. I used it alternatively with an Audio Research tube amp with my Verity Audio Parsifal Encores. It had more of the traditional "tube" presentation than the ARC, with lots of "bloom" and sweetness without being overly thick or mushy. The Parsifals seemed to want a little more power than the Prima Luna had on tap, but at reasonable volume levels it was very musical. I wish I still had that amp to try with my Devore 9s, which do much better with lower-powered tubes. I have never heard an Ayon amp but the reviews have all been very positive. This is an interesting thread to me because I am considering both brands right now. I don't know why someone would make the statement that Prima Luna has reliability issues without presenting facts to back it up. "I know a lot of people who have reliability issues with prima luna" is quite a claim to be making without something more solid to back it up. I don't think Upscale Audio would continue to promote and sell these amps if they had reliability issues.
Thanks for all of the feedback.

You guys are right. I don't know what I was thinking. I tried to pull a fast one on you. Everything I said was made up.
Ladoc, ARC was my favorite amp before PrimaLuna, and I had the same opinion as you, after acquiring the PrimaLuna. Now I like it better because I'm able to tailor the sound to my taste with NOS tubes. Mine is 70 watts per channel mono blocks.

Enjoy the music.
Zd542, glad to see that you recognize your error.

Buy the Ayon. Amazing amp. Replaced input tubes with amperex nos and just incredible, lifelike music!
Came with Shunguang Black Treasure KT88 tubes
Don't ignore the Line Magnetic Amps give them a listen musical magic.

Built like tanks class real class.
Comedychief, there is only one solution, get them both and then when you make your decision, you can sell me the other one at a big discount. Orpheus10, do those monoblocks kick butt and do they retain the sweetness of the lower powered Primalunas? What speakers do you have?
I'll echo Jib222, the Ayon is a very attractive product. My experience was with what was at the time their entry level amp, the Spirit-1. A friend of mine owns it and loves it. It is very musical, very clear, but while it was still in the shop here I heard it drive some difficult speakers very well.

My friend runs the amp with Gold Lion KT88s and Telefunken rib plate 12AU7s. It makes for a sublime little rig. Again, I can't comment on the Prima Luna as I have no experience with it, but I can recommend the Ayon - at least the Austrian ones - without reservation.

FYI regarding my friend's system: Kimber 12TC speaker cables, vintage Audio Magic silver interconnects to a Rega Saturn CD player, and Silverline SR17.5 monitor speakers into which I installed Duelund VSF copper capacitors. It's a nice little rig.
I am delighted wih my Dialogue 3 preamp and ProLogue 5 amp.
PrimaLuna is the most reliable and easy-to-use tube amp brand. With all due respect to Ayon, I'll stay with Primaluna. The sound quality/character depends on the actual model you are looking at, but I like the fact that PrimaLuna is more on the traditional tube sound camp (like Conrad Johnson), while Ayon is more like modern tube gear (like Audio Research).
I just purchased the Orion II to accompany the Ayon CD2 player and the Gemme speakers from Canada. It is going to be an interesting experience from the Audio Physic Avantis and Musical Fidelity TriVista integrated amp. I'll keep you posted.