Gammajo, I discussed this with Gerhard Hirt & he made no mention of any offer from Ayon to offer recent buyers free upgrades. Apparently an upgrade kit is still not available for previous spec units, but will cost. MG |
Great to see an Ayon Audio forum to talk about all things Ayon. I am the proud owner of a modded/upgraded Ayon CD-5s spinner which was the subject of a mini-review I posted in another thread. I thought it might be of interest, so i'm re-posting it here with permission from myself ;)
Due to major changes in my system including interconnects (Jorma Origo), speaker cables (Origo biwire), amp (Boulder 1060), racks (Taoc) & isolation (Acoustic Revive/Alto Extremo), and difficulty sourcing a suitable 32a connector to re-terinate one of my Acoustic Revive Ref pc's, this review is long overdue! Having owned the previous CD-5 & now the CD-5s, I feel the improvement in the CD-5s is substantial, as much in the sound as its added features. The CD-5s as mentioned in some earlier posts has a number of improvements over the CD-5 incl: an improved Japanese analogue volume control (CD-5 used a digital volume control), "true analogue in" (analogue inputs on CD-5 were subject to a-d-a conversion), improved tube output stage incl: 2 x custom-made higher value (3.3uf) Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil coupling capacitors (1% MKP), 2 analogue inputs (incl 1 x xlr) & 24/96 asynchronous USB board. There are also a group of toggles switches at the back of the player including xlr/single ended, 0/180° phase, Normal/Direct to amp & low/high gain. After setting the toggles to xlr, 0° phase & direct to amp, I experimented with the gain & upsampling features and established early on that I preferred low gain paired with my Boulder 1060 with upsampling switched on. Some reviewers feel that the CD-5s sounds better with upsampling switched off. I think this will be an individual choice & system dependent to some extent.
The CD-5s is almost the perfect high end rb cd player & what the CD-5 should have been. I say "almost" because I indentified 3 components which could be improved. Now as a preface I should pay homage to Gerhard Hirt who uses the best tube tester in the world (an Amplitrex AT1000) and tests every tube fitted to their players over all 5 specs, so the factory tubes are very well sorted. Never the less I wanted to take my player to the limit, so I upgraded to matched NOS 6H30P-DR output tubes & matched NOS Russian 6C4P rectifiers. I further identified an opportunity to ugprade the factory Burr Brown OPA627AP op amps. The OPA627AP's were about the best op amps 20 years ago, but are only midrange op amps today. The best op amps I could find were Burson single HD discrete op amps. My research found that the Bursons (despite their claims) were no better (or worse sounding) than the very best ic op amps available today.
Altogether, the above mods made a BIG difference, elevating an excellent high end rbcd player to a great player. The Bursons turned a narrow portal into a wide open vista, doubling the soundstage width & adding detail. The sound is also more analogue and smooth (less technical sounding) & there was more bass.
So having re-connected my system, I initially ran my Isotek cd for 64hrs (equivalent to 129hrs normal play) & had a listen. The sound had smoothed out quite a bit, but still sounded closed in and tight, so the Isotek cd went back on for another 56hrs (equivalent to 112hrs). I then treated one of my reference cd's with my RIO-5II, RD-3 & Finyl cd treatment, and settled in to listen. Wow! Now we're talking! The Ayon now sounded warm, open & very musical. Over the course of the weekend, I put a further 15hrs on it, and all I can say is wow!! I was listening to my Pink Floyd Pulse cd tonight, and after the above treatments the sound was incredibly pure, timbraly accurate, warm & liquid sounding, yet authoritive & exciting. But what blew me away was the sound staging! On track 3 of Pulse (cd #2), I was literally looking around my room as sounds appeared in different parts of the room, and following sounds across a vast, enveloping sound stage. I closed my eyes & my Marten Coltrane Altos disappeared. I was experiencing the same excitement I get from a live performance, which is something not even the Vitus SIA-025/SCD-010 combination did for me, though the SIA-025 is the purest, most melifluous sounding amp I have ever heard.
The addition of the Boulder 1060 was certainly a huge upgrade from my previous Classe Cap-2100, and drove my Altos for the first time with solid bottom end authority, and sounded natural, fast, accurate & musical. I would say the Boulder is on the slightly warm side of neutral. What suprised me was how good my modded CD-5s sounded as preamp! This is the pre-amp which comprehensively beat out the Aesthetix Janus in my earlier review for another forum. In that review, I noted the improvement in sound stage depth from the earlier CD-5; a known quality of Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oil caps. This was complemented by the improvement in soundstage width from the Burson upgrade. Just remarkable for an integrated player!
The CD-5s is hand-made in Austria at Ayon's factory, and the quality is very evident. It's brushed aluminium chassis is lovely to look at with the solid-looking polished aluminium top loader (a modified version of the latest Phillips Pro 2 LH version) which includes a heavy acrylic cover incorporating an integrated magnetic puck which works a treat. The display looks great in red & provides more information than the previous model. The trade off is the characters are smaller. Owners with larger rooms may find themselves squinting to read the display. I found it ok for my smallish size room. The remote control is the best remote control i've ever owned & feels solid and heavy. It also looks smart in matching brushed aluminium with silver buttons that feel solid & give a reassuring mechanical 'click' when actuated. There is no backlighting, but then again there are gorgeous silver metalic buttons instead of cheap rubber ones. I love the convenience of controlling my cdp, source selection & volume from one remote.
It's not just the quality, amazing circuit design, features or sound which have so impressed me with Ayon, but also the first class after sales support I have received from Ayon President Gerhard Hirt. My experience with Ayon has been a delight & given me great pride of ownership. In conclusion, I am blown away by the CD-5s which to me represents a smashing high end value. I give it my highest recommendation!
Disclaimer - I have no connection to Ayon, but am just a happy customer.
Cheers, MG |
Hi Gammajo, just repeating my reply from another thread fyi.. In regard to the metallic "ping" which you hear when you press play on your Ayon, this comes from the 6H30 tube filament and is very normal. Ayon do not use any negative feedback or compensators to erase tube noise or hum as most manufactures are doing. Boulder are the only company which properly understand negative feedback, but they are an exception. Most other applications of GNF have a negative impact on the sound.
Xlr cables help lower the noise floor through common mode noise rejection & better grounding, but also roughly double line level gain. The CD-5s already has high gain, and due to your Krell's high input impedance no doubt your over-juicing your amp which is causing the distortion. As a starting point, i'd recommend leaving the gain toggle set to 'low'. Remember the clipping point doesn't change with balanced cables, only the position on the volume control where that occurs. If the above doesn't solve your issue, i'd switch back to single ended cables which are apparently lowering the line level gain to an acceptable level. Regards, MG |
I received news from Ayon that they are about to start delivering CD-5s units with a new 24/192 USB board. The price of these updated players will go up modestly which is to be expected. At this stage, Ayon are still working on upgrade kits for existing CD-5/5s owners, though I am told existing owners will be notified when the upgrade kits become available. The cynical part of me questions why the CD-5s was released sans the new board? Hopefully we can shed some light on this. |
To be fair to Ayon, Gerhard explained to me when they released the CD-5s around 1 year ago they did not yet have the 24/192 board ready at that time. In fact it needed a further year of development of their own Windows 7 software for the USB driver. Fwiw I agree with Gerhard's own personal view that USB is not an optimal connection for an audio signal, but of course most current owners will likely want to keep up to date. The CD-5s at it's price point still remains probably the best analogue sounding rbcd player in the world |
Gammajo, I don't believe the new USB board should be offered free to existing CD-5s owners. It is not a critical component in the player & remember Ayon spent more than a year developing just the own Windows 7 software for the USB driver alone. My own view which I expressed to Gerhard is that the cost to existing 5s owners should be ameliorated as much as possible however. |
03-05-12: Denon1, Ayon have been around long enough, and in particular have invested a lot in product development which has enabled them to earn a loyal customer base, albeit smaller than icons like Pass or ARC. Ayon have no plans for a CD-6 or something like that. Please understand the CD-5s is already at the limit. However Ayon have just released a new dedicated transport (CD-T) in the last week to compliment the Skylla 2 dac. Wish I had the space, that combination should sound wonderful! |
DH, thanks for sharing your thoughts on server-based music. I'll read up on your suggestions. When I eventually archive my cd's, I favor using a high end server connected via SPDIF like Gammajo which gives you the benefit of native 24/192 resolution. No need for a USB update! |
Hi Jarraa, I am using an Acoustic Revive RST-38 board under my CD-5s. Although the CD-5s (like all Ayon products) is well isolated, being a tube component with moving parts it will benefit from further isolation. I didn't do back to back comparisons with and without the AR board, but I sense there is greater transparency, and a smoother more organic sound with the RST-38 board. It is really unique in that rather than using inferior layers of granite, glass or composite materials, AR are using granules of natural crystal to achieve opposing goals. Ie: reduced distortion/noise & higher resolution and warm, smooth, organic sound at the same time. Highly recommended! |
Well Denon i'm not going to mention where I bought my RST-38 board, i've had to learn that lesson the hard way. The board is a standard size (482Wx38Hx382Dmm) which is a perfect fit for the CD-5/CD-5s imho. The outer edge of the feet sits a mil or two inside the outer edge of the top board. I found (one) website which listed the board @$1100.00US. If you look around you may find a better price. But even at that price, it is good value when you consider the price of RIQ-501OW feet & the huge amount of natural crystal supplied with this board. |
Saint, I dug up my old listening notes from the a-b-a test I did when I sold my old CD-5 vs the buyer's Audio Aero Prestige -
"The buyer was using an Audio Aero Prestige player and we a-b-a tested it on the same music & the differences were certainly clear to me; the AA was more rolled off in comparison, the dac section was less detailed and accurate & the midrange was bloated. I also felt it had a 'sheen', like a veil clouding the music. The AA certainly sounded warm, though I felt that quality was compensating for omissions elsewhere. In comparison, the CD-5 had better weighted bass & extension, the above-mentioned veil was lifted, sound came from a dead quiet background & you then felt like the band were in the room playing for you. The buyer also noticed the improved detail and accuracy of the dac, whilst his wife noticed the above-mentioned veil being lifted, though on first impression said she preferred that quality in the AA."
...the end result? The buyer kept the Ayon and sold the AA.
I haven't heard the AA Capitole Mk2, but the Prestige was AA's previous top model. AA players do certainly sound organic in the way that Avalon speakers do, but ultimately I found the Ayon more satisfying. For synergy, i'd be cautious matching the CD-5s to your Bryston 6B SST. As Doggiehowser mentioned earlier, because the Ayon is a valve preamp & has zero NFB, it needs to be matched with an amp with high input impedance >47kOhms. The Bryston's input impedance is 50kOhms balanced & 20kOhms unbalanced, therefore if you decide on the Ayon, i'd run it in balanced mode, otherwise you'll get hum (read: bad). I use a Boulder 1060 which has an input impedance of 100k ohms (balanced) and 50k ohms (unbalanced) which is benign to even the weakest tube preamp.
Overall, if you want a more laid back player, i'd go for the AA, but if you want a more dynamic, vivid and 3d sound, i'd go for the Ayon (especially if you want to use it as preamp). Btw, for the CD-5s I recommend upgrading the tubes to 6H30P-DR's if you want to get even better resolution/dynamics, or cryo-treated EH Gold Pins if you're want a warm, lush sound. I also recommend upgrading the factory Burr Brown OPA627AP op amps. The OPA627AP's were about the best op amps 20 years ago, but are only midrange op amps today. I had my AE swap them out for Burson Single HD discrete op amps which were a nice upgrade. The Bursons sound more open like a stream, added sound stage width, improved bass & sounds more analogue.
Hope that helps, MG |
It sounds like your CD-2s is on Death Row Al, lol! |
Hi DH, thanks for the f/b on the CD-5s' dac. It is a really good dac imho (essentially a Skylla 2 with an extra psu and transport). |
@Mojo, for synergy you might want to look at Ayon's tube-based servers. I've seen (but not heard)one in the flesh & they look very nicely built atleast from the outside. As always, do your homework. |
@Fluffers, Regarding tubes, imho the mil-spec Reflektor 6H30P-DR tubes manufactured before 1991 are the best made & sounding variant of the 6H30 triode. They were designed and built for sensitive Soviet space & military applications, so they were built to much tighter tolerances & have roughly double the life of standard 6h30's. The DR's sound more dynamic, clear, and have better top and bottom extension. They are a little less 'tubey' than the EB's, so if you prefer a warmer sounding tube I would alternatively recommend cryo-treated Electro Harmonix 6h30pi gold pins from these guys - http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=327&osCsid=55a74bb6af3690e43bb526df35f00cb9 |
Agreed, i'd post a seperate thread Calvin & you'll get a better response :) |
This thread is Lazarus with a triple bypass...it keeps comings back from the dead! Lol. |
Calvin, I know what you mean as I've heard enough cases, including audiophile friends who've had major issues with reliability, warranty, customer service etc, as well as the opinion of a good AE to certainly warn me off thier amps and lower range CD players. Knock on wood I never had a problem with my Ayon CD-5s, then again I took it to my AE when it was new to upgrade the Op amps, and he generally fixes anything that's loose or likely to fail. The first thing you need to know is Ayon is not made in Austria. All thier products are made in thier factory in Hong Kong by Chinese workers, using mainly Taiwanese boards. Also, thier amps are unnecessarily complex. They try to control tube amps with microprocessors using proprietary software, then within 1-2years the emloyee who wrote the software has left Ayon, and they (Ayon) can't fix the problem because the only person who knew anything about it has left the company! If you add previously poor customer service to the mix, there are just too many red flags for me. I now buy mainly new Vitus gear which is made in Denmark, using Danish (Vitus) transformers, modules and boards. They only import a small percentage parts like caps, Phillips drives etc. and Vitus's customer service is friendly and helpful. |
I own an SIA-025 Class A integrated which I bought in Q3 last year which incorporates the big update to this model in Q1, 2012. The RI-100 in the reference series is more affordable & is capable of driving almost any speaker load. The RI-100 sounds more neutral and a bit less warm and tube-like than the SIA-025, but still retains the familiar Vitus sound. One guy is using an RI-100 to drive his Magico Q7's! - http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue70/magico_vitus.htm |
@AL, maybe Sion should re-name this thread "The Arnold thread"? |
@Mike, the original Ayon Triton just had "Ayon - Austria", and I believe the latest Triton 3 has the same label. Even so, to be able to say "Made in Austria" may only require a small percentage of parts made in China to be assembled in Austria to quality. In the case of Ayon, I would take that label with a grain of salt. |
Lol AL, time you booked yourself into Belleview to get shrunk! :D |