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AVR: Internal 2 CHANNEL AUDIO MODE. OR: HT BYPASS (external equipment for 2 CH Sources)

1. AVR, every one I had includes an AUDIO MODE for 2 CHANNEL which sends ALL signals ONLY to L & R Amps/Speakers. True 2 Channel sources, OR, ’unencode’ or ’down-mix’ surround to 2 Channels (often sounds better). Critically, surround center signal goes equally to L/R. Poorly done surround or cable created pseudo surround is ’put back together’.

or

2. HT BYPASS: separate L/R inputs direct to AVR’s L/R Amps (at full gain). You send volume controlled L/R signals (devices with their own volume control or via a preamp). (I’ve never had one, nor anyone I know).

https://hometheateracademy.com/home-theater-bypass/

In both cases, the AVR L/R amps only are driving the L/R Speakers, thus the amp’s sonic signature is the same. Using ’better’ equipment to feed the same amp?
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Why HT Bypass? Shortage of Inputs?

Blu-Ray players play CD, SACD so that’s already covered.

Aside from everything else, you need 2 remotes if you use HT Bypass (to control 2 Channel Volume).

Pure Signal? Many AVR’s offer ’PURE’ or ’DIRECT’. Many preamps offer tone bypass, i.e. Pure, Direct. Thus the preamp is simply a source selector and volume attenuator.

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IF I wanted ’better’ 2 channel equipment, I certainly would want ’better’ L/R amp(s) (most probably Tubes) so the AVR will be off and a method to get to the L/R speakers is needed.
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And, let’s not forget, the need for VIDEO (creating and maintaining L/C/R Imaging over WIDE multi-person viewing audience) is fundamentally different than AUDIO (refined/precise 2 Channel Imaging for a single listener).

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My contention: a specific speaker solution for WIDE L/C/R imaging for Home Theater, and try/use the AVR’s 2 Channel MODE for 2 channel source and force 2 channel to see if a surround source might sound better (often does). Simple Mode button, same volume, single remote.

2 Channel Music: a separate speaker type, thus a separate system.

I’ve always had a dedicated PC (even prior to HDMI) as an optional source for my HT, that’s my streamer and full net access, You Tube, Netflix, Prime etc. is on Smart TV’s now, but not in the old days. Even then, PC the source, I often find trying the AVR’s 2 Channel Mode sounds better. Audio and Video on the motherboard, no fan noise of dedicated video card.




elliottbnewcombjr

Showing 5 responses by soix

soix
8,597 posts
 
Pure Signal? Many AVR’s offer ’PURE’ or ’DIRECT’. Many preamps offer tone bypass, i.e. Pure, Direct. Thus the preamp is simply a source selector and volume attenuator.
Yes, you do get a pure, direct route right to the AVR’s crappy preamp section that completely ruins sound.  As has been said here many times before, most AVRs are basically an amalgam of cheap electronic parts combined to meet an extremely aggressive price point the mass market will bear, and those necessarily cheap electronic parts just cannot produce excellent sound (not the least of which are the crucial power supplies that are usually the first victims of cost cutting given their relatively high cost).  And while a preamp is basically a source selector and volume attenuator, it has a HUGE impact on the sound a system ultimately produces and minimizing its importance is a tragic mistake. 
IF I wanted ’better’ 2 channel equipment, I certainly would want ’better’ L/R amp(s) (most probably Tubes) so the AVR will be off and a method to get to the L/R speakers is needed.
Precisely, and that’s the function and purpose of the HT bypass.  But it’s not only to bypass the amp but also the all-important preamp section as well so that, even though it remains powered up, the AVR is completely out of the signal path for critical stereo listening.  To get truly better 2-channel performance you’ll need either an integrated stereo amp or separate stereo pre and amp.  There aren’t many (if any) absolutes in this hobby, but this comes about as close as anything to being one IMHO.  FWIW. 


soix
8,597 posts
 
HT Bypass is a DIRECT INPUT to the AVR Front L & Front R AMPS.

Several sources, thru your ’best in the world’ Preamp, still go to the AVR’s L/R amps thus the AVR is still driving the speakers, the preamp a switcher with volume control.
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is meant by HT bypass vs. a “Pure Direct” mode of an AVR. HT bypass as it’s most commonly used here is an input on the stereo preamp, not the AVR — that would obviate the whole point of a “bypass.” The whole idea of the HT bypass is to do just that — have your higher-end sources completely bypass the AVR. Once they enter the AVR in any fashion, any higher-quality audio signal is effectively ruined. Specifically, the front L/R preouts from the AVR get routed into the stereo preamp’s (or integrated’s) HT Bypass input along with all other critical 2-channel sources connected to other line inputs thus “bypassing” the AVR while the stereo pre allows the AVR’s front channels to pass through it unaffected by and independent of the preamp’s volume control. Hopefully this helps put things in a clearer perspective.
soix
8,597 posts
 
Hey Elliott, I know this is tough to grasp at first as it seems almost too good to be true, but it exists and allows us audiophiles with only one room to seamlessly blend HT and stereo systems into one and switch between them with only the push of one button (assuming you have a HT bypass input, although any unused line input on the stereo pre will work, but let’s save that for another day). And when playing critical 2-channel sources the AVR is COMPLETELY out of the signal path. Seems impossible to accomplish without having some form of extra switch or speaker cables involved, but here we are.
It’s still a case of two amps to one set of front speakers isn’t it?
No! That’d be a complete mess.
This presumes 2 separate systems, not for the budget minded.
No!!  The only thing you need to add for this to work is a stereo integrated and a pair of interconnects, and as everything is connected together I still consider this technically to be one “system” — or, maybe more accurately, a “system within a system.”  So, in my opinion this IS for the budget minded because you’re basically getting two separate systems just by adding one component (or two if you go for stereo separates).
I think both systems must be on and the separate 2 Channel Integrated always powers the front speakers. No front l or r speaker wires from the AVR. Thus the integrated sends any 2 channel source to the front
Yes!!! Ding Ding Ding (although the AVR doesn’t need to be powered on when listening in stereo). Only the stereo amp/integrated is connected to the front L/R speakers, so by connecting the L/R preouts from the AVR to the stereo pre you’re allowing the stereo pre to simply pass through the L/R signal from the AVR (when the HT Bypass input is selected on the stereo pre) that is still completely controlled by the AVR’s volume control. Everything else from the AVR remains connected and works as it was/did before. It’s deceptively simple, but it works beautifully and many among us lived very happily like this before acquiring dedicated listening rooms. Anyway, hope this is a little clearer but definitely ask away if I missed anything.
soix
8,597 posts
 
By George, I think he’s got it!  It’s a beautiful thing, ain’t it?
Older Stereo Systems without HT Bypass can be used this way,however the coordination of the front volume can be tricky.
Not really.  When I did it I just set the “reference” volume level on my stereo preamp at the 12:00 position when I balanced the channels using the AVR, so whenever I selected the line input on the stereo pre that was fed by the AVR I just set the stereo pre’s volume knob to 12:00 and all was right with the HT world.  The only thing was I had to remember to lower the volume on the pre when switching from HT to stereo to avoid being blasted out.  Minor inconvenience IMHO, and it has the benefit of allowing you to choose any preamp you want and not limiting you to one with an HT Bypass.  Anyway, thanks for sticking with me through this — you hung in like a champ, and it’ll surely be worth it.

soix
8,597 posts
 
@big_greg — good idea using a diagram.  Much easier and more effective than using all those damn confusing words.  Wish I’d thought of it.
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