The Eidolon is very holographic and fast with an accurate/neutral presentation. The 700cx will drive anything well but must be mated appropriately with a musical front end and preamp...garbage in/garbage out! The 802D speakers are a forward sounding, overdamped speaker with little expression. Undoubtedly, the Avalon speakers will be an improvement in a well tuned system.
What are you using for source and pre? This will determine the overall qulaity of music more than the 700cx, which is about as neutral as it gets.
While I have not heard eidolon with 700cx I did with a 600c. Was pretty good, great bass. They did sound much better using a MF kilowatt amp-preamp. The depth of image was crazy deep....One of my friends owned this system I have listened to it many many times helped set it up. So almost as familar as if I owned them. I would say a BIG step up from BW. But to be fair I should add Iam not a fan of BW.
What are the current problems and deficiencies with your existing system?
I'm a fan of B&W and Avalon is a step up. THe midrange is much faster and more detailed. Imaging also improves.
IMHO Avalon tend to match better with warmer electronics.
Hi Nickt, I heard Krell amps with Eidolons at Sound by Singer (whn they were a Avalon dealer) and the sound was great! While the Krell amps did there part, credit goes to Sound by Singer for the total setup. I still think back to that demonstration time.
I think the Eidolon is one of the very best speakers when set up right. They are also amp friendly. The Krell CX amps are a big step ahead for Krell and they would sound awesome with the Eidolon's. I would never compare the B&W with the Avalons. It would be like comparing a Porsche to a mustang.
yep...IMO the 802D is tubby and totally overrated ..I also would never compare the two.Avalon is in another level,several steps up
Just my opinion: please dont abuse the Eidolon with anything from Krell. Even a $500 tube amp or a cheap counterpoint SA100 will beat the Krell driving Eidolons.
Johnsonwu is probably rite.
Krell CX amps are garbage in garbage out...don't blame the messenger!
I agree with Dave_b except for the in and out.
I tried 700CX with my Eidolons Vision. The big Krell worked as good as any other solid state amps I have tried (and I have tried many of them, including $23k Lamm M1.2 monos).
Having said that, the best sound I managed to get from Eidolons, was from a tube amp, not ss.
"Just my opinion: please dont abuse the Eidolon with anything from Krell. Even a $500 tube amp or a cheap counterpoint SA100 will beat the Krell driving Eidolons."
Thanks for the chuckle; certainly got my day started on a positive note!
My comment was actually an honest opinion, no kidding.
I have owned Eidolons since 2000 and have purchased and borrowed many amps to try on them.
The Eidolons are very Krell-averse.
Look, I'm sure most of you guys haven't even begun to have owned and lived with as much world class gear as I have, so let's stop the nonsense. I've had great all tube setups, 50/50 kits and every other possible combination imaginable. The Eidolons are fantastic and do mate well with tubes. They also sound amazing with solid state when properly setup. I know Krell well, I've owned a ton of it along with many other fine pieces of equipment. Krell amplification can produce one of the most realistic presentations available "if" properly mated and cabled. In fact, I recall a visit to my dealer when he was demoing the WP5.1's from wilson audio. The amps we used were an ARC VT200 with Ref 2 MKII preamp and a Krell FPB 600....they were virtually indistinguishable from each other. The Avalons and Spectral gear also sound great together. Both technologies can yield involving results. The joy some of you seem to obtain from the degradation of a particular brand or technology is more than juvenile, it's ignorant. Then again, what many so called audiophiles pass off as a listening session often brings into question their frame of reference and hearing prowess.
>>Look, I'm sure most of you guys haven't even begun to have owned and lived with as much world class gear as I have<<
Much more in fact.
Ok, Audiofeil, yours is bigger! Your list of gear is enormous..oh, wait..you didn't list anything did you? How about the more important aspect of audio appreciation and understanding..have you ever heard the BSO live? Ever heard of new world records? Rochberg perhaps? Oboe from a french horn a problem for you? Obsessed with quotations? I have alot of questions for someone who isn't forthcoming with his audio ownership experience. If I've missed your credentials then I apologize...but I still question your ears.
I used the Reference One with VT200 during the 1st year of ownership of the Eidolons. I kept the reference one until last year. Dumped the VT200 within 9 months.
The VT200 is indeed up there in the league of Krell in terms of non-musicality.
( I had a Krell KSA100S (1994-1995) and then a KSA300S (1995-1999). I had Ascents back then. And back then I was after Hi Fi - the ultimate resolution and I was deaf to music.
I don't know if mine is bigger but that's irrelevant and only a concern if you're insecure about yours.
What matters is I've owned more equipment than you've heard.
Have a nice holiday guys...obviously your happy with your gear and sense of musicality. Funny though, if in fact some of you have attended a great music hall, that your sense of what sounds real is so different. Anyway, enjoy and I hope you get out and hear some live music close up...maybe you'll come around yet!
Interestingly I almost wrote the same response Dave_b posted, I have been a regular attendee of th concerts @ Davis in SF and Herbst theater for many years.
I have experience seating @ different sections but the sound that I heard in those events in my opinion is a far cry from what Krell or Audio Research VT200 can do.
Live sound is impossible to recreate fully at home. Only certain aspects of the concert experience and at best the general gestalt can be purchased for at will consumption. I have heard many an attempt utlizing various grades and technologies of audio equipment; some do certain music well and fail at another i.e..jazz vs classical. The sense of aliveness and clarity I get with my system excites me...recently I have achieved a synergy that adds smoothness and defintion along with great tonal shadings and expression via new tweaks and cable changes. I am very happy:)
Dave b: i am really missing something, your main list is cables and a cd player but you are the expert because you listen to live music, making your knowledge of hearing better? i am getting older and def do not hear as well as when i was younger but i do know what to listen for and what sounds good to me. this notion that live music is the ultimite and only way to truely hear music is pure bull started by those who feel they are elitists. every live hall some how alters the sound by it's shape, size, demensions and fixtures. the studio is where it's at. the only pure true way for an artist to create exactly what he/she/they are going for (although there are some great recordings done in odd places that sound fantastic). that's where the greatest music has been made, that's what i am intrested in hearing. you love live muic, great but this hobbie is about quality pre-recorded sound in your home.
I do believe Audiofeil has listened to more setups than Mr. Dave_b. Rather than just a hobbyist, Audiofeil is a pro and has been in the business for years.
Since live sound is impossible to recreate fully at home,
I would opt for the more enjoyable interpretation rather than the ones that give me a headache and cause my ears to feel like they are about to bleed.
And I will not resort to using whatever bee filters and such things to "tame" the solid state signatures of ear-piercing gear.
The starte of the thread asked about Eidolons, have you owned them before?
No but heard them at an audio group members home many times. The power amps were tube OTLs the 120 watt/p/c Atmaspheres.
I wouldn't be as shy as you have been regarding tube amps. The reason the VT-200 sucked is because ARC uses the EH6550 wich is a flat, bang and squeak output tube. My friend Jjoe warned about using these tubes because it will make your system sound like solid state. If youy want that buy SS. I didn't and had owned a small Consonance integrated. I already knew that the strong suit of tubes is imagery, tone, and detail. If you want the richest possible bass as well consider Biamping with the class A amps you have mentioned amongst many. I found the best tube for my Cpera Consonance Monoblock 800s is the stock tube a true tetrode which are scarce in current production the EH 6CA7 not repeat not an EL34 which is perpetually described as the same tube with two names. Not at all in this application, I purchsed a tinker toy preamp for $300 an AE-3 no longer made. I rolled the inout tubes on the Cybers. I thought this is it man. After a 6 year search I found nirvana. Adding the AE-3 was an even more euphoniuc revelation, how could a system that sounds great sound even better but it does.
I bought a long term destination integrated amp for the WAF systen. It is a an older Jadis DA-60 all original except it had a managery of EL34s Flying Cs Svetlanas , Sovtek rebranded as Svets and EH if you can uimagine. I was told that by a friend to forget the sound of the Jadis Orchestra deluxe which used KT-90s and sounded thin with a wretched trebble emphasis to my ears and simply not my cup of tea. He had decided to try our agreed upon favorite JJ E34L blue glass. He started to cry because it sounded as if it was heaven sent by courier yet. But he made the commitment. He got a DA-60 after a long wait for one to crop up and it sounded ghastly. It had been modded by the butcher a known Jadis modder who is actually a sadistic mean crook. He took it to a distributor authorized trained in electronics repair and Jadis in particular who rrecognized the mods immediately. After undoing them he put in the E34Ls and he was absolutely correct it was a totally different amp than the little guy with the KT-90s. I copy catted him after another long wait, and paid less but mine is oder but did not need $1K of work. I tried as it was a mixture of tubes and it sounded decent. I wrote to a tube dealer in the prisoner place and he wites back this is what you want. Period but they cost plenty at the moment. I spent the green and rolled the 12AU7s to 7136s and the 12AX7s to 3 mica Sylvavia blackplates found it not working well with the KT88s and used early Mullards, no not the ticket. Finally I had forgotten about a pair of Tung Sol reissue 12AX7s. Nirvana ! what is the likley hood of that twice in one year. Anyone want to ttrade me some thing precious for all the gear that I bought and held over the past 6 years. I would gladly take a hit. To the editors don't worry I pay for real ads.
Conflict of interest is that one of the people mentioned in this tasle of triumph is the ditributor of Opera Consonance N.A.
I think we all love music but we have different desires for it's recreation in the home. I come from the perspective of having played in bands and frequented different symphony orchestras from a young age. One thing seldom mentioned on the threads is perspective. By perspective I am alluding to the proximity under which one prefers to sit/stand when lsitening to live music (acoustic or amplified). For myself, 5th to 10th row center is ideal. I want to experience the full power and dynamics of an orchestra or band when playing live. It is the hallmarks of this perspective by which I compare and contrast equipment and cables. Some people like a more distant, less resolved and pretty facsimile of what is on a recording...I do not!
Came across an interesting article by Bill Feil regarding what he feels to be the best cables. It appears Stealth Cables have been determined to be the best by his panel of esteemed friends...and I thought there was no "ONE" cable that was superior. Best thing is he distributes them! Now that is convenient isn't it.