Bracing for a flame war on this one - but are there any really seriously good sounding active floor standers? The new Dynaudio XEO 6's intrigued me.
Here's why I'm interested. I recently acquired some great Verity Audio speakers that I realized my entire cabling, amps, preamps etc were too warm for. Problem is I'm getting past the point where I see this as a hobby and am just looking for good music reproduction without tons of system matching experimentation etc.
One interesting option would be selling all my electronics, cables, etc on A-gon and just purchasing a good DAC and good sounding Active floor standers. I could therefore afford decent speakers (up to $7K or so), pocket some cash, simply the system (and save lots of time and grief shopping for matching components).
Am I expecting something that would sound as good as the Verity's with appropriately good electronics? No - not even close.
But a quality audiophile sound I could live with and possible tweak with the right sounding DAC that could make me more or less satisfied is the goal. The don't have to be magical like the Verity's. Any thoughts?
The most of the power used for amplification is for bass and midbass. Audiophile class A which is very powerful cost a lot of money. Very important and critical to use this amplifier to mid and high freg. and not so important for bass and midbass, This is reason why some high end LS company supply active class D bass module. We made semi active with build in 2 amplifier for class D bass and class AB for midbass . so you need just good external amps class A with just 10-20 watt and save a lot of money
Looking to bump this thread to include new active speakers that anyone might have auditioned or purchase? I'm too interested in thoughts on the Dynaudio, but the new version of the FocusXD60? Or Avantgarde Zero or Kii system? Also, the new Eikon from Gayle Sanders?
Macrojack: This post is ancient but I should answer it anyway and not ignore it.
The ATC SCM19A would be a floor standing direct comparison to the PMC AML1 (6 inch 2way ). This won some awards this past year. The ATC passive version is a smaller box book shelf, the SCM 19.
The amplifiers take up too much space to do in active version in bookshelf size, hence the move to floor stander for active.
Brad Lunde ATC Importer to the US Lone Mountain Audio (Consumer)
Maybe the mags have taken little notice of pro gear because these products come from companies who deal in fact rather than fantasy and because the pro outfits aren't interested in playing the monopoly game set up by the audio press. Likewise, I've been told that the margins on pro gear are much smaller than what home hi-fi provides. In short, I suspect the pro manufacturers aren't interested in the petty collusion perpetrated by our audiophile press. After all, the majority of their customers know what they are buying and many buy in large quantities. Why dick around with our neurotic superstitions? Try your cable arguments in a recording studio with actual sound engineers.
Bob - What are you using as a preamp with your Neumann 310A? I've been considering the Grace Design M920 which has 2 analog inputs, and a host of digital inputs to the new Sabre DAC which has garnered enormous praise everywhere. It's a professional audio product so I'm sure it would play nice with the Neumanns. Check it out and let me know if it looks like a perfect match to you. Added bonus is a state of the art headphone amp and a very good remote.
I have actives now after trying quite a few audiophile monitors. Actually mine are only part active but I can't imagine getting better sound out of a pair of monitors for 5x the price I paid.
I am frankly surprised there isn't much more interest in this topic. After all, it would appear that a high percentage of us ask questions reflecting an inability to overcome many of the difficulties one can encounter trying to match speakers, cables and amplifiers. All of that is bypassed by selecting a good quality self-powered studio monitor. Yes, they appear to be expensive at first blush but, in reality, you can buy a $5000 pair of compact studio monitors that will outperform any combination of amp, speakers and cables that you could find for that much money. Think about it!
Spending $3000 for and amp, $500 for speaker cables and $3500 for speakers does not move you into the stratosphere with conventional home audio. But with studio monitors you can move into the lower levels of the world class studio monitor range. The biggest problem is finding the models I'm mentioning properly demoed anywhere. Let me know if you find a good place for that..
Thanks Bob. As I mentioned above, I just received a pair of KRK Rokit8 active monitors, a 2 way with dome tweeter and 8 inch woofer. I'm quite surprised at how they are turning out but I can certainly see your point about going to a 3-way. Do you have any experience or knowledge about their 10 inch 3 way?
I have big horns hybrid to a 15 inch woofer in a 5 cu. ft. cabinet. They are unbelievably resolving and fast and dynamic and effortless. Hard to beat. In fact, I doubt I can surpass them, but I might be able to put together something with rival qualities, compact size and a change suitable for the old age that awaits me some day soon.
I have my doubts about the Rokit 10-3 performing even close to that level. I guess I could check out the local music stores but I doubt they deal in such exotic fare.
It seems like most of the active speakers (ATC included) have a reputation of being on the brighter more etched or revealing side. Is this true?
This is absolutely not true. In fact, the older SEAS tweeters (before ATC came out with their new inhouse ones) are quite sweet sounding. Also, the amp design ATC use is AB with class A bias. It's more organic sounding to me than say Bryston.
What people are talking about is ATCs are tuned real flat with low distortion. The bass is also tuned to be clean and tight rather than boomy or sonorous. So there's no second-harmonic euphony, I suppose. On good quality recordings, this makes them incredibly transparent and natural through the midband, especially. Equally, on crappy recordings, you'll hear the crappy mix. This isn't the fault of the gear rather than the producer!
This banks a lot then on the front-end source/preamp to balance out these characteristics. In a home setting, I agree too much ruler flat gear can be brutal, but it's so easy to find well-balanced sources (say with tube outputs or high class A-biased outputs). It's not at all easy to find pure sounding speakers that don't compromize fidelity in other areas.
I would contact ATC dealers directly rather if you're not having much luck with the distributor, Brad Lund of Lonemountain Audio. Buying used is also an option to reduce the sticker shock. Another brand that works in a similar space with pro and consumer active speakers is PMC, which are also very good.
Today I received my KRK Rokit8 monitors I bought through Amazon. They are internally bi-amped, have some Kevlar like material in the woofer cones ,and tone controls and adjustable gain on the back. I paid $221.40 each including shipping. I hooked them up to my fully balanced JRDG Capri preamp and lit them up. Of course, they are brand new and will need to loosen up some, I imagine, but the sound is really good. In a 12 x 13 bedroom, they were a little bass heavy so I turned that down one click. Otherwise, they are really delightful. Like Rockadanny above, I'm starting to wonder if I might want a more high end active monitor for my main system. Very timely thread for me.
Not a floor stander and you'd have to buy used, but I've been running a pair of Quad 12L Actives for about two years and have been very pleased. They're fantastic all-arounders. I see pairs pop up for around $600 here from time to time.
Wouldn't surprise me that quality active speakers tend to deliver clear crisp detailed sound. THat's what should happen when speakers and amp are designed to work together optimally.
It seems like most of the active speakers (ATC included) have a reputation of being on the brighter more etched or revealing side. Is this true?
I just sold some excellent Verity speakers just because the process of getting all new well matched components, cabling etc would require too much effort and time on my part. Not only are high end dealers far and few between these days, but they don't seem to let you audition equipment, cables etc in your home before purchasing.
Though I understand the business reasons for this, it makes the task of getting an optimal system lots of work.
For quality audio to gain any traction from the tiny niche its in, manufacturers will have to focus more on all in one systems that effectively takes the excess time and grief out of the process. At least for those of us who are looking good sounding audio - and not a time consuming hobby. And of course up to dealers to promote these products.
Powered speakers seem to be a good step in this direction along with integrated amp/DAC packages like the Wadia intuition.
Crazy thing, but if you google "best speakers" you'll get far more hits for blu-tooth or wireless than conventional speakers.
But that's pretty much the choice - either stereo systems that cost more than your car or single blu-tooth speakers from Bose etc. Quality stereo systems have been around so long they should be commodities by now. Sure you'll always have to pay for new technological leaps forward. But there should be no reason you have to mortgage your home to afford technology that was high end 30 years ago. And that was pretty damned good.
Sorry for the rant - but all I want is quality audio without the tears. And if we can make products as complex as iPhones, coming up with high quality sounding systems combining amp, preamp, DAC's and speakers into a simple setup that most people could at least splurge for shouldn't be impossible.
My KRK Expose E8Bs surprised me more than any speakers I've heard in 35+ years. More so as I have used the insight that they have given me into the rest of my system, to fine tune the upstream sound.
I've not heard the active studio monitor competition at the level that they compete, but I have heard a decent amount of equipment and systems since the late '70s and the E8Bs on the end of a decent system do right by the music.
Good luck getting a demo where the partnering equipment will do them justice.
Interesting thread as I've always liked the idea of powered monitors. I've had the KRK rokit 8's and also a mackie srm450 at one point. Both good for what they are and I've always been intrigued by self powered speakers.
Didn't know atc is so expensive... Those focal's with the berrylium tweeters look nice too.
What would be some better dac choices with good volume control (or could I continue using my lightspeed?) and balanced outs?
Larrybou, on dedicated preamp vs dac-pre into actives, this is totally dependent on the quality of the dac-pre in question.
If you don't need analogue input selection, then a dac-pre is the best way to go for purity and transparency. IME, it makes utterly good sense to eliminate an unncessary active/passive stage, plus the extra interconnect and power cables.
Then again, not all output stages in dacs are made equal, and it will be a question of synergy as per normal system matching. There will also always be transparent and synergistic preamps that will work well, but the trade-off is generally significant extra cost (which could have gone back to improving the source component).
I don't seem to like the built-in volume controls of certain DACs like the ESS Sabre and Wolfson chips. OTOH, the one in my NAD M51 is heaps better with my ATC amp than the Benchmark DAC2 HGC and also the iFi iTube buffer, which I tried out. At a different price range, the pre section of the AMR DP-777 is meant to be very, very good.
If you're going active like with ATCs, you'll also absolutely want to be going with a dac-pre with balanced outputs, also.
Wow - great responses! And yes, I'm more interested in a realistic to timbre, scale, transients, etc sound than caring as much about audiophile fetishes such as perfect instrument placement, spooky imaging, or being able to actually hear whether Diane Krall clipped her nose hairs before stepping into the studio.
I've actually always been partial to good pro-audio sound and would probably go that way it if my wife would put up with it (as if..).
I guess I'll check out the ATC's Adams and Dynaudios.
But with active speakers you all still recommend a preamp rather than a front end? No preamp/DAC combos?
I just ordered a pair of KRK Rokit 8 powered monitors for the bedroom TV and my computer desk in the same room. Reputation is very good but I chose a discontinued model thinking that these would be half the price of the VXT 8 and probably almost as good. They'll be here next week and I can let you know after that. At $442.80 and free shipping for the pair, I figured the gamble was well worth it. I've never heard anything from this company but the customer reviews on line have been encouraging. I agree with above comments about stand mount. Why is it important to buy floor standers? They usually cost much more and have about the same footprint as stands.
Has anyone mentioned the new Bamberg Series 3 yet? If not, end of discussion! ;-) It is seriously good, with imaging and design characteristics better than anything listed here. I was part of a private demo of this speaker after hours at AXPONA this year.
Look it up and drop Philip a line.
I am unaffiliated, just very impressed by the Bamberg speakers I have heard. The Series 5 is outstanding as well!
I hadn't thought about the question as "audiophile", but Kiddman's point is good, and can also be applied to the Adam speakers, which are also used in studio applications. I have heard both the ATCs (the 40s, I believe) and the earlier version of the smaller Adam model in their Tensor line (believe it was the Delta). Both have the dynamic capabilities that you need to make you think that you're listening to live music. They will not sound "pretty", though. I listened to the Wilson Sasha at the same time as I did the Adams, and while the Wilson did everything "right" in audiophile terms and sounded very good, I preferred the Adams speakers because of their openness, tonal fidelity and realistic dynamics; if I'd had the cash then and knew I'd be moving to a smaller room in a few years I would have bought them. I heard the ATCs in my home (their then-distributor brought them there for an NJAS meeting) and, aside from a bit of brightness that I attribute to the preamp that the distributor brought and used, I was struck by their resolving power and incredible dynamic abilities. These speakers aren't for everyone, but they might be what you're looking for.
Feed them a good source and get them out from the wall and you'll get imaging a plenty from ATC. You need to listen to them. Take off the audiophile hat about not being able to alter the sound with distorted special effect cables and all that. Think "what does music sound like?" and then listen.
If you can live without some of the holographic layered imaging I've heard from Verity speakers I agree with Kiddman and Roscoe. ATC speakers are outstanding at preserving and cleanly conveying the dynamics and power of a live performance (especially in the midrange) with nothing exaggerated or highlighted to distract you from the music. If you can find a pair of active ATC 50s in your price range I'd strongly recommend considering them. Best of luck.
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