Audio Technica AT ML-180 Cartridge Advice

Raul, it was perfectly illustrated above with my pictures to show the difference in the stylus tip mounting method and the cantilever materials of the AT-ML150 and the AT-ML170 models. The frequency response is 5Hz - 40Khz vs. 10Hz - 30Khz. The 150 is no way identical to the 170 in terms of sound and the price difference between those two models is huge on the used market today. The AT-ML170 is much closer to the AT-ML180 than to lower AT-ML150.

I will remind to other about this old TAS review: http://www.regonaudio.com/Stanton881AudioTechnicaATML70.html
" Kavi Alexander, auteur of the remarkable Water Lily Acoustics series of analogue vinyl discs, is monitoring disc production by comparing test pressings to the master tape. What cartridge is he using? Another moving magnet, this time the Technics EPC 100, Mark IV, unfortunately no longer available in the US. But he describes the Audio Technica ATML-170 as very similar, and very close to the actual sound of the tape. In this comparison, he says, virtually no moving coil does so well; most have seriously apparent colorations. " 

The difference in inductance between AL-ML180 and all others is 310 ohm vs 730 ohm. It’s more than a double. And the angle of the tip/cantilever is 23 degree vs. 20 degree. The mass of the 180 cartridge is a bit higher too (7,5 vs. 7g).

As for your review of the AT20SLa with ATN20SS (instead of ATN20SL or ATN20SLa) stylus then we’re speaking about the difference ONLY in the cantilever material, there is no difference in generator at all! But you’re sayin’ 20SS is superior, so the same conclusion must be applied to the defference between AT-ML models especially if the difference is not only the cantilever, but inductance, stylus tip mass and more in case with AT-ML180 versus all others.

Now you are not speaking of inductance any more, good. Mass? yes: different cantilever/stylus holder and some internal arregments. But, what's your point? what do you do not like on my advise to send the cartridge to Northwest?, it's only an alternative suggestion, that's all.

Thanks Raul for the great response. I spent a lot of time yesterday going between an Ortofon Classic GM E MKII SPU, a Grace F9 Ruby and the 180/150 combo and I have to say the 180/150 is opening up / breaking in nicely.

I will contact Northwest next week and ask what options they can provide but I think if it continues to get better I will hold off on any expensive upgrade as this combo currently gives a huge bang for the little bucks I paid.

First of all, many thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.

As an update I have decided to hold off on rebuilding the original ML180 cantilever as the NOS ML150 stylus on the ML180 body is proving to be a very enjoyable cartridge indeed.

During the time it has been breaking in, it has in my opinion, exceeded the performance of the Grace F9 Ruby, the Shinon Boron Red, the Ortofon Classic GM E MKII SPU, the Fidelity Research FR1 MK3F and my most recent addition the Grace Level II RC.

The only cart left in my stable that beats it, is the Spectral Reference LOMC cart.

One of the most impressive features of the cart apart from dynamic range, holographic imaging, expansive soundstage, etc, etc,......... is how quiet it is in the groove. I have always heard of people speaking of "inky black backgrounds" but never truly appreciated it until now.

One other reason not to consider rebuilding was that my research into new cantilever options concluded that even though I could spent well over $600 on a new cantilever for the ML180 stylus holder, I was still not going to get the performance of the original ML180 stylus.

It would no doubt be very good but not the same, and although my current ML150 stylus is also not as good as the original ML180 stylus, I do not believe any expensive rebuild will give me a better return than the NOS factory ML150.

After all, the ML150 stylus is a very high quality gold plated beryllium cantilever with natural (not man made) Microridge diamond. I feel this has to be better than anything a retipper can provide.

In conclusion the ML150 stylus works really, really well on the ML180 body.