Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

"Audiophiles are Snobs"  Youtube features an idiot!  He states, with no equivocation,  that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good.  He is either deaf or a liar or both! 

There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review.  If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public.  They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better.   They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance.   Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.  

Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?  


Amir is trying to prove a negative. That has never before been accomplished.  
Nothing to see here. 

I’m running out of popcorn and the mudwrestling match shows no signs of a clear winner in sight. 

@laoman ,

Props for that link to the Darko exchange with Amir. It spoke volumes. Darko is such a class act. I could (and should) learn a thing or two from him on how to engage the absolutists and dogmatics one encounters along the way.

All the best,

The problem with measurements above all, is the logistics. Take loudspeakers for example. We can't drag a loudspeaker home and run a Klippel sudo-anechoic measurement on them before we buy them (even if that system could provide useful information on panel loudspeakers). So, even the measurement guys do what we all do. They go down to the shop and listen to the speaker and buy the one they like. 


the assumption that there is a fundamentally rational, measurable basis for emotional responses to an experience (like listening to music) is flawed. no one denies that there is ample research and data to back up assertions about engineering, and everyone is aware that there are results from controlled listening tests that indicate the preferences of the majority (of test participants anyway). my view is that figuring out "what sounds good" is something different. life is not a controlled listening experiment, and our individual experiences with music are shaped by circumstances which cannot be generalized, let alone replicated. 

the act of measuring gear is not a threat or a problem for anybody. i agree with amir that more information about a product is always a good thing. where i disagree is when people insist that i shouldn't trust my senses when i am determining whether a piece of equipment is good for my system.  reviewers with a subjective bent don't bother me at all, for the same reason - seems blandly obvious that what sounds good in john darko's room might sound like junk in mine. how do i figure it out? i buy the thing and return (or sell it) if it sucks!

i've done this with topping gear which measures great on ASR. some people love topping - i don't say they're wrong or have bad hearing or only care about specs. my $100 schiit dac simply sounded better and the topping gear was ultimately not worth the expense. why? i don't know! and at the end of the day, i don't care. will i spend another thousand or two bucks trying to better the schiit? probably. i like trying new things and seeing if i can hear the differences - it's fun